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March 13/14th PSU Storm


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Damn, GFS has a more classic deform band going still at noon here



Funny you mention that. NAM3km actually had something similar and we are starting to get into range of details like this. The GFS run was very nice. H5 depiction was a sweet setup for almost everyone in here. GFS MAY be a hair too cold, but have to like the QPF presentation. Bombing lows with Atlantic feeds will almost always have high precip totals. Question will just become the thermals up to game time. Precip with this system for our subforum is the last of my concerns. Closer in, models will get a better idea on banding structures and tbh, HRRR is best at handling that, so we would have to wait for that anyway.


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1 minute ago, vinylfreak89 said:

Echoing what others have said the GFS looks fantastic and much closer to a full phase...i think QPF is down slightly because of losing the inverted trough look. If this is where we end up, will be very happy, but this is a nice tend kicked off from 6z, and I think there is still upside potential

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If a full phase were to occur, would that be a cut-off LP which would slow it down?

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5 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

Look at the 850 temps over DC/Baltimore/ (and most importantly)my backyard at 12z Tuesday from the GFS.  That extra cold pocket means there's some serious 850mb frontogenesis going on here and that means probably some beautiful dendrite formation and rakeage.  imageproxy.php?img=&key=20fe2b78d4e66dff

 

 

gfs_T850_neus_9.png

Does this area of frontogenesis move NE as time progesses , following the storm center North and East ?

Thanks  

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question from newbie... I note on TT maps at 54  for the 12z GFS that the SLP is now east of Cape May, whereas on the equivalent 66 panel for the 00z GFS, it is east of Nantucket, so it seems to have slowed down quite a bit.  Is this because of the additional phasing that the 12z GFS is accounting for?  Thanks and I'll shut up now.

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Gfs has been incredibly consistent with the southern vort passing like this. It's just a perfect spot to light up the nw side of the low. 

 

gfs_z500_vort_neus_9.png&key=6e145b3fd36c1302fe09742ca594017245e08b5cac5d3305f913df7aa7ae9d34



The banding structures from this system should be impressive. I'm liking the H5 setup more today than any days leading up. There's also nothing better than some ULL love while cleaning up.


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4 minutes ago, midatlanticweather said:

Goes along with that 850mb frontogenesis.  This run is probably the best look I've seen yet for a rocking powder bomb in the deform band.  Previous runs seemed to focus the heaviest snow on the initial WAA thump.  The spots that can maximize both the WAA thump overnight and then get into some great dendrite formation in the deform band will be doing very nice.  I like how GFS says my backyard is such a spot B)

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We really need to drop the full phase and capture talk. For our latitude we would need the ns energy to close off to our SW. There is no way that is happening. No model is even close. The ns vort slowed a little so the storm slow a little as well. But there will be no stall/capture here. 

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If a full phase were to occur, would that be a cut-off LP which would slow it down?



Probably not going to slow down the actual movement of low pressure... maybe by another 6 hours or something... it's a very progressive jet, but a full phase could cause a cyclonic loop as well as a more pronounced deformation axis on the southwest edge (ala 2/5/2010)... but even with a full phase, we are not talking a 36 hour storm, just maybe a bit more moderate to heavy snow after 15z and more dynamics with the ULL pass (which also would probably happen quicker with a full phase)... there are downsides to this too... A sneaky warm layer at 825 or a bit higher tends to show up as things get vertically stacked, which makes pingers a possibility, especially in lulls

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2 minutes ago, MillvilleWx said:

 


The banding structures from this system should be impressive. I'm liking the H5 setup more today than any days leading up. There's also nothing better than some ULL love while cleaning up.


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Every single run the gfs is stead fast lately. It could be wrong of course but unwavering like it has and being like 36 hours from onset is calming on the nerves. 

If the gfs verifies, the wintery appeal of the event in its entirety would be historic. Even better than st paddy 2014. 

Just need the euro to jump in and the elephant in the room will leave.  Lol

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Great run. The regional models are all trying to place meso scale banding but it's too far out for that. I would trust the location of the globals still then as we get within 24 hours start to look at where the banding might set up. Great gfs run. 



Couldn't agree more. I don't like to look for things like that up until game time just because they will change many times at long leads. The HRRR is going to be very useful by Monday afternoon and evening leading into prime time. Given the setup, multiple bands are likely and prime spots such as the higher terrain in Carrol and the 81 corridor will likely see their fare share. It's going to be a great storm to watch unfold.


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5 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Great run. The regional models are all trying to place meso scale banding but it's too far out for that. I would trust the location of the globals still then as we get within 24 hours start to look at where the banding might set up. Great gfs run. 

RGEM/NAM Meso thermals are nagging me though.  For you, it doesn't matter

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We really need to drop the full phase and capture talk. For our latitude we would need the ns energy to close off to our SW. There is no way that is happening. No model is even close. The ns vort slowed a little so the storm slow a little as well. But there will be no stall/capture here. 


I don't think a classic full phase is really in the cards where the ULL becomes completely vertically stacked... there is already too much separation, but you can already see better alignment of the 2.5 shortwaves and more of an indication the ULL wants to open up and reform closer to the primary baroclinic axis... that's what I'm referring to by a full phase, is an energy transfer at 500 as well as sfc

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I don't mean to crap in the thread, but the Canadian looks slightly weaker, west, and verbatim it looks like a mix or rain along 95 at 48..

gem_mslp_pcpn_frzn_neus_8.png&key=5785aa5f176425064366c47a3c369d52da5da07e173f4ebd9b2d744460f758bb


GEM has that weird double maxima thing the NAM/RGEM did... so that's 3 vs 1 at this stage for the double max... Still not sure it's a final solution, but better resolution may mean it's sniffing the energy transfer better than the GFS. Does anyone who is better with analogs have any examples of a double maxima like this? Doesn't even have to be for our subforum... it's just not something I recall seeing before and kind of flys in the face of what I know about jet orientation and lift dynamics. Not saying its wrong, because several models showing it has to give some pause.

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