March 2017 Discussion & Observations

[Paragon]

1 hour ago, nzucker said:

I'm pretty excited for the upcoming stretch. We should get 2-4" with Friday's clipper, we have the major snow threat on Tuesday 3/14, and the GFS has some potential again from 3/17-3/21 with an active pattern and reload of the cold.

The PV sat over Russia for much of Dec-Feb, but the strong -WPO/-NAO has brought it back to North America with the record -66F in Mould Bay, Canada (462dm heights).

This double block leads to a potential for an exciting late winter period. I have 23" if snow this winter so far, and a 10-15" March would leave me well above normal on snowfall.

I always thought March would be cold, and that appears to be correct.

Haha you were all doom and gloom a few weeks ago   This shapes up to finish like 1967 (possibly).

[Cfa]

Interesting to see the temp instantly plummet 10°F while crossing the Great South Bay. It literally went from 60°F to 50°F in about a minute or so.

[Isotherm]

2 hours ago, nzucker said:

I'm pretty excited for the upcoming stretch. We should get 2-4" with Friday's clipper, we have the major snow threat on Tuesday 3/14, and the GFS has some potential again from 3/17-3/21 with an active pattern and reload of the cold.

The PV sat over Russia for much of Dec-Feb, but the strong -WPO/-NAO has brought it back to North America with the record -66F in Mould Bay, Canada (462dm heights).

This double block leads to a potential for an exciting late winter period. I have 23" if snow this winter so far, and a 10-15" March would leave me well above normal on snowfall.

I always thought March would be cold, and that appears to be correct.

 

Our discussions from a month ago regarding late winter appear to be verifying. The contemporaneous AAM decrease / MJO sling shot through E hem / strat warming barrage has induced a much more propitious regime for high latitude blocking. Shorter wavelengths will permit PNA spike next week as BC lobe regresses into the NPAC. Still uncertainities on the table regarding the mesoscale details, but z500 has verified in terms of overall expectations. People should be thankful we are even entertaining current model proggs as the winter background conditions did not support something like that. However, what we have is an ostensible archambault signal with multiple standard deviation increases with both the NAO and PNA occurring concurrently. The resultant will be bombogenesis along the coast; the question involves specifics.

[Rjay]

16 minutes ago, Isotherm said:

 

Our discussions from a month ago regarding late winter appear to be verifying. The contemporaneous AAM decrease / MJO sling shot through E hem / strat warming barrage has induced a much more propitious regime for high latitude blocking. Shorter wavelengths will permit PNA spike next week as BC lobe regresses into the NPAC. Still uncertainities on the table regarding the mesoscale details, but z500 has verified in terms of overall expectations. People should be thankful we are even entertaining current model proggs as the winter background conditions did not support something like that. However, what we have is an ostensible archambault signal with multiple standard deviation increases with both the NAO and PNA occurring concurrently. The resultant will be bombogenesis along the coast; the question involves specifics.

Yup it was an excellent call so far.  I had my doubts on seeing much cold air this March but you've been spot on all winter and I'm fully on board.

With that said, it's beautiful outside today.  Currently 59 and sunny.

[Neblizzard]

22 minutes ago, Isotherm said:

 

Our discussions from a month ago regarding late winter appear to be verifying. The contemporaneous AAM decrease / MJO sling shot through E hem / strat warming barrage has induced a much more propitious regime for high latitude blocking. Shorter wavelengths will permit PNA spike next week as BC lobe regresses into the NPAC. Still uncertainities on the table regarding the mesoscale details, but z500 has verified in terms of overall expectations. People should be thankful we are even entertaining current model proggs as the winter background conditions did not support something like that. However, what we have is an ostensible archambault signal with multiple standard deviation increases with both the NAO and PNA occurring concurrently. The resultant will be bombogenesis along the coast; the question involves specifics.

Tremendous prediction Tom, thank you for your input...a cold active pattern sure looks likely for the next 1-2 weeks. 

[bluewave]

1 hour ago, Paragon said:

Chris, any clue what this might mean for next winter with a possible el nino?

El Nino's generally break into two camps- ones with a mild december and ones with a cold december, and the latter have winters that are much snowier, so I'm hoping for the latter.

That is a really good question. We are starting to see more of a -SOI recently with warming occurring in the Nino 1+2 region. The last piece necessary for a El Nino to develop would be  for the trades to relax which hasn't happened yet. So the behavior of the trades and whether we get some solid WWB's this spring into summer will determine the ENSO heading into next winter.

[donsutherland1]

Since 1950, there have been four snowstorms that brought 6" or more snow to both Boston and New York City after March 10: 3/18-19/1956, 3/18-21/1958, 4/6-7/1982, and 3/12-14/1993. Three saw both cities pick up 10" or more snow.

The forecast 500 mb pattern has a ridge-trough couplet that is most similar to that of the March 18-19, 1956 snowstorm. That storm brought 13.2" to Boston and 11.6" to NYC. It also saw 8.7" fall at Philadelphia. 

For now, there is a lot of potential. The details remain to be worked out.

[uncle W]

my first big snowstorm I remember is March 1956...The first one on Friday the 16th was 7" with thunder and lightning that scared the chit out of me...The second one started on the 18th and continued into the 19th...13.5" fell in Battery park...The biggest snowstorm I found for that part of March was on March 17th 1867...2ft fell...

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1867-03-18/ed-1/seq-5/

[nzucker]

8 hours ago, Paragon said:

Haha you were all doom and gloom a few weeks ago   This shapes up to finish like 1967 (possibly).

I was never all doom and gloom. As you see below, Isotherm and I have been talking about the late winter potential for weeks. You usually get a pretty decent March in a La Nina, especially after the warmer February. 1960, 1967, 1984, 1999, 2008, and 2009 all had cold/snow in March. The analogs led the way.

7 hours ago, Isotherm said:

 

Our discussions from a month ago regarding late winter appear to be verifying. The contemporaneous AAM decrease / MJO sling shot through E hem / strat warming barrage has induced a much more propitious regime for high latitude blocking. Shorter wavelengths will permit PNA spike next week as BC lobe regresses into the NPAC. Still uncertainities on the table regarding the mesoscale details, but z500 has verified in terms of overall expectations. People should be thankful we are even entertaining current model proggs as the winter background conditions did not support something like that. However, what we have is an ostensible archambault signal with multiple standard deviation increases with both the NAO and PNA occurring concurrently. The resultant will be bombogenesis along the coast; the question involves specifics.

Yes, definitely a lot of moving parts here with various shortwaves. The main idea though is that we should have a period of -NAO/-WPO with ample cold to the north and an active mean storm track to the south of the region. The specifics have yet to be worked out.

[Paragon]

1 hour ago, nzucker said:

I was never all doom and gloom. As you see below, Isotherm and I have been talking about the late winter potential for weeks. You usually get a pretty decent March in a La Nina, especially after the warmer February. 1960, 1967, 1984, 1999, 2008, and 2009 all had cold/snow in March. The analogs led the way.

Yes, definitely a lot of moving parts here with various shortwaves. The main idea though is that we should have a period of -NAO/-WPO with ample cold to the north and an active mean storm track to the south of the region. The specifics have yet to be worked out.

Oh sorry, I just remember reading where you said that when you have a winter like this, getting the action at the end of the season doesn't feel quite as great because of the higher sun angle and all that stuff.  Then you have years like 2010-11 which are also La Ninas and all the action comes in December and January lol.  

[Paragon]

4 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

Since 1950, there have been four snowstorms that brought 6" or more snow to both Boston and New York City after March 10: 3/18-19/1956, 3/18-21/1958, 4/6-7/1982, and 3/12-14/1993. Three saw both cities pick up 10" or more snow.

The forecast 500 mb pattern has a ridge-trough couplet that is most similar to that of the March 18-19, 1956 snowstorm. That storm brought 13.2" to Boston and 11.6" to NYC. It also saw 8.7" fall at Philadelphia. 

For now, there is a lot of potential. The details remain to be worked out.

Wasn't that a really long duration snowstorm too?

Which of the above was the best? Was it March 1958- the one which dumped 30" of snow at Babylon?  Does this have any similarities to that one, Don?  It would be funny if we got similar storms to both 1956 and 1958 in the same March lol- because there is another big storm coming up a few days after this one (around the anniversary of the one in 1958 in fact.)

 

 

[Paragon]

3 hours ago, uncle W said:

my first big snowstorm I remember is March 1956...The first one on Friday the 16th was 7" with thunder and lightning that scared the chit out of me...The second one started on the 18th and continued into the 19th...13.5" fell in Battery park...The biggest snowstorm I found for that part of March was on March 17th 1867...2ft fell...

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1867-03-18/ed-1/seq-5/

Was the 1867 storm part of the official Central Park record, Unc?

I noticed we haven't had any 20" snowstorms in March after the blizzard of 1888 lol- officially for Central Park at any rate (30" in Babylon in March 1958 was notable though- how much did the city get in that?)

 

[bluewave]

Pretty wild to get the El Nino backloaded winter effect we normally experience in February a month late in March. That is the power of tropical convection for you. Notice the strong convection and VP anomalies in Nino 1+2 with the classic trough location in the East with the more +PNA. Almost looks like a hybrid pattern superimposed on what is left from the La Nina pattern which dominated all fall and winter.

 

 

[nzucker]

8 hours ago, Paragon said:

Oh sorry, I just remember reading where you said that when you have a winter like this, getting the action at the end of the season doesn't feel quite as great because of the higher sun angle and all that stuff.  Then you have years like 2010-11 which are also La Ninas and all the action comes in December and January lol.  

You're thinking of someone else. Of course, I'd rather have the action during our prime snowpack period, which is 12/15-2/15. That is what made 2010-11 so special, three major snowfalls between 12/26 and 1/27. Remember, though: March 2011 had light snowfalls on 3/21 and 3/24, and several days in the 30s/low 40s during this period. 

At the start of the season, I said our coldest months would be December and March. This looks to verify. Many La Ninas like 59-60 and 83-84 have the cold Dec/milder Jan-Feb/cold March combo.

Also, the last time we saw a 462dm PV over the Canadian Archipelago in March was 1996, another La Nina year with a cold December. Mould Bay, Canada also hit -60F in March 1996. We hit -66F with -47C 850s this March at Mould Bay, near Banks Island.

When people were saying winter was over and spring had arrived with the 70F weather in late February, I persevered and said winter would be back. It's back. Let's see what it can do.

[donsutherland1]

For reference, as some potential exists for a possible 8" or greater snowfall early next week, here's a list of the 8" or greater snowfalls in New York City (1800-2016):

March 13-14, 1809: New York City: 8”; Philadelphia: 18”

March 30-31, 1823: Newark: 10”-12”; Providence: About two feet.

From the March 31, 1823 issue of The New York Evening Post:

Yesterday morning [March 30], at about 8 o’clock, commenced, and continued through the whole of the day and the greater part of last night with unabated violence, the most furious snowstorm that has been experienced in this quarter for more than twenty years… The roofs of the houses are loaded with snow, which is continually sliding off, in large bodies, to the foot walks, in some instances carrying with it the gutters and the wood work attached to them. Several chimneys and a number of trees and fences in the vicinity of the city were blown down.

March 14-15, 1834: New York City: 12”-15”

March 16-17, 1843: New York City: 18”

March 16-17, 1867: New York City: 12”

From the March 17, 1867 edition of The New York Herald:

The snow beat with blinding and persistent force in the faces of all whose way lay northward, and was most severe during the hours when the great throng turns towards uptown homes.

From the March 19, 1867 issue of The New York Herald:

The centre of attraction…was of course the Park, and every avenue converging to the Bloomingdale road was thronged with sleighs, whose occupants gave unmistakable testimony in their smiling and joyous faces of their expectations of fun and pleasure. As the houses grew fewer and further between brighter and brighter became their countenances, and louder and more merry was the laughter. From but a short time after daybreak until a very long time after sundown the Bloomingdale road presented a scene of the utmost gayety and the liveliest animation.

March 20-22, 1868: New York City: More than 12"

March 12-14, 1888: New York City: 21.0”

From the March 13, 1888 issue of The New York Times:

The storm of wind and rain, which began to sweep over this city and the neighborhood on Sunday evening [March 11], gathered force as the night progressed. The temperature began to fall, sleet and snow descended in succession and the wind became boisterous. Before daylight dawned yesterday a remarkable storm, the most annoying and detrimental in its results that the city has ever witnessed was in full progress. When the people began to stir to go about their daily tasks and vocations they found that a blizzard, just like those they have become accustomed to read about as occurring in the far West, had struck the city and its environs and had laid an embargo on the travel and traffic of the greatest city on the continent.

March 17-18, 1892: New York City: 8.0”

March 15-16, 1896: New York City: 12.0”

March 18-19, 1956: New York City: 11.6”

March 20-21, 1958: New York City: 11.8”

March 22, 1967: New York City: 9.0”

March 13-14, 1993: 10.6”

[Morris]

22 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

For reference, as some potential exists for a possible 8" or greater snowfall early next week, here's a list of the 8" or greater snowfalls in New York City (1800-2016):

March 13-14, 1809: New York City: 8”; Philadelphia: 18”

March 30-31, 1823: Newark: 10”-12”; Providence: About two feet.

From the March 31, 1823 issue of The New York Evening Post:

Yesterday morning [March 30], at about 8 o’clock, commenced, and continued through the whole of the day and the greater part of last night with unabated violence, the most furious snowstorm that has been experienced in this quarter for more than twenty years… The roofs of the houses are loaded with snow, which is continually sliding off, in large bodies, to the foot walks, in some instances carrying with it the gutters and the wood work attached to them. Several chimneys and a number of trees and fences in the vicinity of the city were blown down.

March 14-15, 1834: New York City: 12”-15”

March 16-17, 1843: New York City: 18”

March 16-17, 1867: New York City: 12”

From the March 17, 1867 edition of The New York Herald:

The snow beat with blinding and persistent force in the faces of all whose way lay northward, and was most severe during the hours when the great throng turns towards uptown homes.

From the March 19, 1867 issue of The New York Herald:

The centre of attraction…was of course the Park, and every avenue converging to the Bloomingdale road was thronged with sleighs, whose occupants gave unmistakable testimony in their smiling and joyous faces of their expectations of fun and pleasure. As the houses grew fewer and further between brighter and brighter became their countenances, and louder and more merry was the laughter. From but a short time after daybreak until a very long time after sundown the Bloomingdale road presented a scene of the utmost gayety and the liveliest animation.

March 12-14, 1888: New York City: 21.0”

From the March 13, 1888 issue of The New York Times:

The storm of wind and rain, which began to sweep over this city and the neighborhood on Sunday evening [March 11], gathered force as the night progressed. The temperature began to fall, sleet and snow descended in succession and the wind became boisterous. Before daylight dawned yesterday a remarkable storm, the most annoying and detrimental in its results that the city has ever witnessed was in full progress. When the people began to stir to go about their daily tasks and vocations they found that a blizzard, just like those they have become accustomed to read about as occurring in the far West, had struck the city and its environs and had laid an embargo on the travel and traffic of the greatest city on the continent.

March 17-18, 1892: New York City: 8.0”

March 15-16, 1896: New York City: 12.0”

March 18-19, 1956: New York City: 11.6”

March 20-21, 1958: New York City: 11.8”

March 22, 1967: New York City: 9.0”

March 13-14, 1993: 10.6”

Thanks!

[donsutherland1]

19 minutes ago, bluewave said:

Also the potential for the heaviest March snowfall of all time following a 39 degree or warmer winter in NYC.

1	2001-2002	41.5	0
2	2015-2016	41.0	0
3	2011-2012	40.5	0
4	1931-1932	40.1	0
5	1997-1998	39.6	0
6	2016-2017	39.3	0
7	1990-1991	39.1	0

Good point. Hopefully things will evolve toward the big storm in coming days. It would be a nice way to cap off the winter.

[BombsAway1288]

50 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

For reference, as some potential exists for a possible 8" or greater snowfall early next week, here's a list of the 8" or greater snowfalls in New York City (1800-2016):

March 13-14, 1809: New York City: 8”; Philadelphia: 18”

March 30-31, 1823: Newark: 10”-12”; Providence: About two feet.

From the March 31, 1823 issue of The New York Evening Post:

Yesterday morning [March 30], at about 8 o’clock, commenced, and continued through the whole of the day and the greater part of last night with unabated violence, the most furious snowstorm that has been experienced in this quarter for more than twenty years… The roofs of the houses are loaded with snow, which is continually sliding off, in large bodies, to the foot walks, in some instances carrying with it the gutters and the wood work attached to them. Several chimneys and a number of trees and fences in the vicinity of the city were blown down.

March 14-15, 1834: New York City: 12”-15”

March 16-17, 1843: New York City: 18”

March 16-17, 1867: New York City: 12”

From the March 17, 1867 edition of The New York Herald:

The snow beat with blinding and persistent force in the faces of all whose way lay northward, and was most severe during the hours when the great throng turns towards uptown homes.

From the March 19, 1867 issue of The New York Herald:

The centre of attraction…was of course the Park, and every avenue converging to the Bloomingdale road was thronged with sleighs, whose occupants gave unmistakable testimony in their smiling and joyous faces of their expectations of fun and pleasure. As the houses grew fewer and further between brighter and brighter became their countenances, and louder and more merry was the laughter. From but a short time after daybreak until a very long time after sundown the Bloomingdale road presented a scene of the utmost gayety and the liveliest animation.

March 12-14, 1888: New York City: 21.0”

From the March 13, 1888 issue of The New York Times:

The storm of wind and rain, which began to sweep over this city and the neighborhood on Sunday evening [March 11], gathered force as the night progressed. The temperature began to fall, sleet and snow descended in succession and the wind became boisterous. Before daylight dawned yesterday a remarkable storm, the most annoying and detrimental in its results that the city has ever witnessed was in full progress. When the people began to stir to go about their daily tasks and vocations they found that a blizzard, just like those they have become accustomed to read about as occurring in the far West, had struck the city and its environs and had laid an embargo on the travel and traffic of the greatest city on the continent.

March 17-18, 1892: New York City: 8.0”

March 15-16, 1896: New York City: 12.0”

March 18-19, 1956: New York City: 11.6”

March 20-21, 1958: New York City: 11.8”

March 22, 1967: New York City: 9.0”

March 13-14, 1993: 10.6”

Sounds like this happened quite a bit in the 1800's then suddenly there was a 60 year break until 1956 with very few since. Let's see if we can make history

[uncle W]

50 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

For reference, as some potential exists for a possible 8" or greater snowfall early next week, here's a list of the 8" or greater snowfalls in New York City (1800-2016):

March 13-14, 1809: New York City: 8”; Philadelphia: 18”

March 30-31, 1823: Newark: 10”-12”; Providence: About two feet.

From the March 31, 1823 issue of The New York Evening Post:

Yesterday morning [March 30], at about 8 o’clock, commenced, and continued through the whole of the day and the greater part of last night with unabated violence, the most furious snowstorm that has been experienced in this quarter for more than twenty years… The roofs of the houses are loaded with snow, which is continually sliding off, in large bodies, to the foot walks, in some instances carrying with it the gutters and the wood work attached to them. Several chimneys and a number of trees and fences in the vicinity of the city were blown down.

March 14-15, 1834: New York City: 12”-15”

March 16-17, 1843: New York City: 18”

March 16-17, 1867: New York City: 12”

From the March 17, 1867 edition of The New York Herald:

The snow beat with blinding and persistent force in the faces of all whose way lay northward, and was most severe during the hours when the great throng turns towards uptown homes.

From the March 19, 1867 issue of The New York Herald:

The centre of attraction…was of course the Park, and every avenue converging to the Bloomingdale road was thronged with sleighs, whose occupants gave unmistakable testimony in their smiling and joyous faces of their expectations of fun and pleasure. As the houses grew fewer and further between brighter and brighter became their countenances, and louder and more merry was the laughter. From but a short time after daybreak until a very long time after sundown the Bloomingdale road presented a scene of the utmost gayety and the liveliest animation.

March 12-14, 1888: New York City: 21.0”

From the March 13, 1888 issue of The New York Times:

The storm of wind and rain, which began to sweep over this city and the neighborhood on Sunday evening [March 11], gathered force as the night progressed. The temperature began to fall, sleet and snow descended in succession and the wind became boisterous. Before daylight dawned yesterday a remarkable storm, the most annoying and detrimental in its results that the city has ever witnessed was in full progress. When the people began to stir to go about their daily tasks and vocations they found that a blizzard, just like those they have become accustomed to read about as occurring in the far West, had struck the city and its environs and had laid an embargo on the travel and traffic of the greatest city on the continent.

March 17-18, 1892: New York City: 8.0”

March 15-16, 1896: New York City: 12.0”

March 18-19, 1956: New York City: 11.6”

March 20-21, 1958: New York City: 11.8”

March 22, 1967: New York City: 9.0”

March 13-14, 1993: 10.6”

I love these posts Don...the 1892 storm was a foot in lower Manhattan...1956 was 13.5" at the Battery...

1892 from the NY Tribune...

http://chroniclingam...-19/ed-1/seq-5/

[nightknights]

Don quick question with global warming and warmer seas would there be potential for more explosive extreme winter storms based on ocean temp being warmer that would produce more historical storms as far as heavier accumulations and higher wind speeds

[donsutherland1]

8 minutes ago, nightknights said:

Don quick question with global warming and warmer seas would there be potential for more explosive extreme winter storms based on ocean temp being warmer that would produce more historical storms as far as heavier accumulations and higher wind speeds

I'm not yet sure about the intensity, but there should be an increase in large snowfall amounts given the increase in moisture. This has been reflected in the regional climate forecast modeling (IPCC projections). It's still too soon to be certain, but I suspect that the increase in mega snowstorms over the past 15-20 years may be, in some part, due to ongoing climate change coupled with internal variability.

[Paragon]

2 hours ago, nzucker said:

You're thinking of someone else. Of course, I'd rather have the action during our prime snowpack period, which is 12/15-2/15. That is what made 2010-11 so special, three major snowfalls between 12/26 and 1/27. Remember, though: March 2011 had light snowfalls on 3/21 and 3/24, and several days in the 30s/low 40s during this period. 

At the start of the season, I said our coldest months would be December and March. This looks to verify. Many La Ninas like 59-60 and 83-84 have the cold Dec/milder Jan-Feb/cold March combo.

Also, the last time we saw a 462dm PV over the Canadian Archipelago in March was 1996, another La Nina year with a cold December. Mould Bay, Canada also hit -60F in March 1996. We hit -66F with -47C 850s this March at Mould Bay, near Banks Island.

When people were saying winter was over and spring had arrived with the 70F weather in late February, I persevered and said winter would be back. It's back. Let's see what it can do.

Nate, wasn't 1955-56 a La Nina too?  If it was, would that be an appropriate analog for this year, especially considering that we might end up with a similar snowfall total this winter and have a similar kind of March as we did that season?

That -66 at Mould Bay was the lowest temperature ever recorded in Canada in the month of March!

 

[Paragon]

13 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

I'm not yet sure about the intensity, but there should be an increase in large snowfall amounts given the increase in moisture. This has been reflected in the regional climate forecast modeling (IPCC projections). It's still too soon to be certain, but I suspect that the increase in mega snowstorms over the past 15-20 years may be, in some part, due to ongoing climate change coupled with internal variability.

Also the more extremes with either very low totals or very high ones, it seems we are seeing the hollowing out of the middle class with our snowfall totals too ;-)

[Paragon]

43 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

Good point. Hopefully things will evolve toward the big storm in coming days. It would be a nice way to cap off the winter.

How about the potential for historic cold, Don?  Next week almost seems like a March version of what we had in April 1982!  I'm hearing talk of record lows and record low high temperatures- next Tuesday it might stay in the 20s!  And here we thought last weekend was going to be the coldest it would get......

 

[Paragon]

44 minutes ago, BombsAway1288 said:

Sounds like this happened quite a bit in the 1800's then suddenly there was a 60 year break until 1956 with very few since. Let's see if we can make history

There were a couple of years in the early and mid 1800s when both NYC and Philly had close to 100" of snow on the season.

[Paragon]

3 hours ago, bluewave said:

Pretty wild to get the El Nino backloaded winter effect we normally experience in February a month late in March. That is the power of tropical convection for you. Notice the strong convection and VP anomalies in Nino 1+2 with the classic trough location in the East with the more +PNA. Almost looks like a hybrid pattern superimposed on what is left from the La Nina pattern which dominated all fall and winter.

 

 

The best combo is a la nina after an el nino and now going back to el nino for next season if it happens is something we haven't seen before.

 

[uncle W]

another storm I found was on March 21st 1868...12" fell...

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1868-03-23/ed-1/seq-8/

pre 1872 6" storms from the NY Tribune...

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1873-01-01/ed-1/seq-1/

[Stormlover74]

Getting some impressive gusts around 40 mph

[bluewave]

26 minutes ago, Stormlover74 said:

Getting some impressive gusts around 40 mph

Steep low level lapse rates and low dewpoints again with the cold front.

[uncle W]

1 hour ago, Paragon said:

The best combo is a la nina after an el nino and now going back to el nino for next season if it happens is something we haven't seen before.

 

63-64 was an el nino...64-65 weak la nina...65-66 another el nino...