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March medium/long range disco


psuhoffman

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Officially a half inch or less in the forecast here. woohoo! So stoked.(not)  Just seeing flakes flying would be cool tho after the debacle of a February we just had.

 

I was high on this clipper a few days ago- thought it might be a decent little event and kick off what(at the time) looked to be a good period. Appears to have all but vanished lol.

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GFS 18z holds it's ground.  This split will go on for another 4 or 5 runs before it inevitable caves.   THE gfs breaks down the Aleutian ridge and uses it to form a PNA ridge, the Euro keeps this intact and in place.   Canadian does something similar but the ridge cuts off much further north.

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4 hours ago, psuhoffman said:

I'm inclined to side with the euro here and I also pointed out the ggem supports the euro but I also don't want to give too much legitimacy to a piece of guidance with absolutely atrocious verification scores. 

I'm not sure if you're talking about the GGEM or GEPS here, but I'm wouldn't call either one atrocious.  Fwiw, the GGEM has recently been posting better day-10 verification scores than the GFS.  The GEFS and GEPS will go back and forth, but on average the GEPS does pretty well.

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19 minutes ago, cae said:

I'm not sure if you're talking about the GGEM or GEPS here, but I'm wouldn't call either one atrocious.  Fwiw, the GGEM has recently been posting better day-10 verification scores than the GFS.  The GEFS and GEPS will go back and forth, but on average the GEPS does pretty well.

Would need to check source. I know I saw the h5 verification scores for the last 90 days about a month ago and the gfs unmet and ecmwf were running close 1-2-3 with ggem and others a very distant 4th. Haven't seen since as I got a new phone and lost the bookmark. If anyone has them please post link. 

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1 minute ago, mitchnick said:

But next February is gunna' rock! Just ignore surface maps. Lol

http://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=cansips&region=namer&pkg=z500a&runtime=2017030100&fh=11

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16 minutes ago, BristowWx said:

I'm no expert but the clipper looks anemic on the NAM.  Who would have guessed that?  

Narrow band of an inch or two.

 

Edit: It essentially caved in with the track of the low. But what'd you expect from the NAM.

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28 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Would need to check source. I know I saw the h5 verification scores for the last 90 days about a month ago and the gfs unmet and ecmwf were running close 1-2-3 with ggem and others a very distant 4th. Haven't seen since as I got a new phone and lost the bookmark. If anyone has them please post link. 

Was it this chart?

SGM0IBP.png

You can see that in recent years there has been a clear seasonal trend to the GGEM-GFS difference, with the GGEM closing the gap in the winter and in some seasons (like last year) slightly outperforming the GFS on average.  It's clearly the #4 global, but I wouldn't call its wintertime verification scores atrocious. 

For something more relevant to the comment that sparked this thread, here are the day-10 verification scores for the op runs for H5 anomalies over North America over the last month.  Of course none of them are very good, but the GGEM's scores aren't that bad relative to the others.

aHGOaaQ.png

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3 minutes ago, winterymix said:

Downsloping assassinates everything on this run including flurries.

Seasonal trend!!!!!!!!!!

True.  But it started out quite weak in the Northern plains.  It was evident early in the run.  I'm sure 18z NAM was just being the NAM.  The unpredictable drunk buddy whom you love to hang out with but usually gets you in trouble.

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54 minutes ago, cae said:

Was it this chart?

SGM0IBP.png

You can see that in recent years there has been a clear seasonal trend to the GGEM-GFS difference, with the GGEM closing the gap in the winter and in some seasons (like last year) slightly outperforming the GFS on average.  It's clearly the #4 global, but I wouldn't call its wintertime verification scores atrocious. 

For something more relevant to the comment that sparked this thread, here are the day-10 verification scores for the op runs for H5 anomalies over North America over the last month.  Of course none of them are very good, but the GGEM's scores aren't that bad relative to the others.

aHGOaaQ.png

If you zoo in on the chart showing difference with gfs the most recent scores at the end of 2016 are pretty bad compared. I think I saw a 90 day chart about a month ago so that would have been November through January. Makes sense if the ggem was doing so poorly the end of 2016 that what I saw was the way it was. It does look like there were  some windows before then that the ggem was doing reasonably well. I know it's been the model that teased with fake snow the most this winter though.  

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54 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Lol there isn't even really a clipper anymore. It washes out. Can't even get that to work out. 

Woo buddy...this is certainly one for the books, lol When you can't even get a clipper! I think we should make a winter 2016-17 "post-mortem" thread to talk about what exactly contributed to what we've seen this winter (so that perhaps next time we can have a clue if we start seeing the same signs at the beginning of winter!)

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No way to spin it, the overnight run of the GEFS was a flat out bad run that took a bulldozer to our hopes for seeing snow. Pulls the PV feature that was rotating through north of the lakes (roughly day 7) farther north which has flattened the corresponding trough and pulled it farther north as well. The cold anomalies @ 850mb that we see in previous runs through this time period for our region take a severe hit as well. So what slim hopes we had for the 2/3 day time period immediately following this PV feature have been for the most part squashed. And the time period after this (10 day+) only gets worse. Flow across the CONUS becomes flat, zonal and withdraws to the north as the PV retreats to the arctic circle. For the most part any cold available gets locked into Canada. Maybe someone else can see a positive in this run but I sure can't. If this were to verify I think we could pretty much put a fork in winter barring some extreme fluke down the road. Only one run though and with the op runs all over the board the last couple of days you never know.

As far as the EPS? Nothings changed in that regard. Hasn't had a good look for snow chances and it still doesn't. Still keeps a trough in the gulf of Alaska down into the northwest for almost the entire run. Still doesn't like the time period when the PV swings through north of the lakes. And day 10+, has for the most part a zonal flow though not as flat as the GEFS. All and all not a good look and yet I think I might like my chances with the EPS over the GEFS at this point.

 

Side note: For the last day or two I have had singing in my ears. Can't quite figure out what is causing it.

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Image result for fat lady singing gif

 

 

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41 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

No way to spin it, the overnight run of the GEFS was a flat out bad run that took a bulldozer to our hopes for seeing snow. Pulls the PV feature that was rotating through north of the lakes (roughly day 7) farther north which has flattened the corresponding trough and pulled it farther north as well. The cold anomalies @ 850mb that we see in previous runs through this time period for our region take a severe hit as well. So what slim hopes we had for the 2/3 day time period immediately following this PV feature have been for the most part squashed. And the time period after this (10 day+) only gets worse. Flow across the CONUS becomes flat, zonal and withdraws to the north as the PV retreats to the arctic circle. For the most part any cold available gets locked into Canada. Maybe someone else can see a positive in this run but I sure can't. If this were to verify I think we could pretty much put a fork in winter barring some extreme fluke down the road. Only one run though and with the op runs all over the board the last couple of days you never know.

As far as the EPS? Nothings changed in that regard. Hasn't had a good look for snow chances and it still doesn't. Still keeps a trough in the gulf of Alaska down into the northwest for almost the entire run. Still doesn't like the time period when the PV swings through north of the lakes. And day 10+, has for the most part a zonal flow though not as flat as the GEFS. All and all not a good look and yet I think I might like my chances with the EPS over the GEFS at this point.

 

We knew it was coming. GFS/GEFS has quickly caved to the Euro. EPS has been consistent for many runs not getting it done with building enough blocking/ getting that piece of the PV far enough underneath(although the 0z op tried). The bad pacific rules the pattern. Pretty close to throw in the towel time.

 

And as PSU posted, what clipper? Turns out the Euro, and especially the CMC, were correct on that. GFS and NAM have been struggling lately.

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