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February 2017 General Discussion


Hoosier

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19 minutes ago, Chicago Storm said:

12z GFS and 0z ECMWF with 50's/60's Friday-Wednesday. Even fairly close to 70 on Monday.

Perfect.

Seeing the climo biased MEX MOS popping a 58 for ORD next Monday is impressive (solid 20 degrees above climo) and gives an idea of the potential.

Some concern for areas near the lake as the gradient looks weak on a couple of those days, which probably means they will get screwed at times.

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Did some digging and found that close to 1 in 4 Februaries has a 60+ degree high in Chicago, so that is not extremely unusual. What is more unusual is to string together multiple days in a row, as the last time there were back to back highs of 60+ was in 2000.  The last time there were 3 or more days in a row was in 1976, and that was actually 4 days in a row (and that string in 1976 included the all-time February record high of 75).

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23 minutes ago, Chambana said:

Met winter overall is going to finish very warm. No denying this winter has been eerily similar to 2011-2012. Not saying spring/summer/fall and the following winter will follow 2012 trend but at least this winter has been remarkably similar. 

There's been some differences in the progression (not surprising since no two winters are exactly alike) but the end results may be pretty similar.  I'd say the big difference between 2011-12 and this winter is that 2011-12 was much more torchy in the northern Plains.

The ENSO progression in 2011-2012 was very similar to what we are seeing this year, so far.

DJF12TDeptUS.png

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16 hours ago, michsnowfreak said:

Thanks. Im no expert but ive been measuring snow for 22 years so im pretty good at eyeballing/guestimating depth. Downtown gaylord resembled Detroit 3 years ago this time of year, and that's when we had 20 or so on the ground. No doubt it's deeper outside the city. One thing you notice when driving up north, the snow depth noticeably varies constantly. I don't care what the winter, the gaylord region is always the deepest depth in lower MI. And why on earth would anyone want to live in a non snowbelt part of the UP? LOL that would be torture.

Yea, Gaylord area  is usually always one if not the most snowfall on average per year. Downtown area does very well, but about 10-15 miles SW gets probably 30% more a year than the airport/downtown areas.  I used to live over near old 27 near otsego lake and did pretty well but my new house location consistently receives more snow in the past 2 years living at my new location.

With that being said I still would rather be in Bo or Will's location regarding snow but am happy where I am.

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2 hours ago, Hoosier said:

There's been some differences in the progression (not surprising since no two winters are exactly alike) but the end results may be pretty similar.  I'd say the big difference between 2011-12 and this winter is that 2011-12 was much more torchy in the northern Plains.

The ENSO progression in 2011-2012 was very similar to what we are seeing this year, so far.

DJF12TDeptUS.png

This winter here has been colder and snowier than 2011-12. Of all the heavy snow we have had the last 15 years, 2011-12 was the one TRUE clunker. I measured 25.5" imby, lowest in my now 22 years of measuring. 

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6 minutes ago, michsnowfreak said:

This winter here has been colder and snowier than 2011-12. Of all the heavy snow we have had the last 15 years, 2011-12 was the one TRUE clunker. I measured 25.5" imby, lowest in my now 22 years of measuring. 

Will be interesting to see what the departures are at the end of the month (as far as the DJF avg). The upcoming torch will no doubt pad the positive temperature anomalies.

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4 hours ago, Hoosier said:

There's been some differences in the progression (not surprising since no two winters are exactly alike) but the end results may be pretty similar.  I'd say the big difference between 2011-12 and this winter is that 2011-12 was much more torchy in the northern Plains.

The ENSO progression in 2011-2012 was very similar to what we are seeing this year, so far.

DJF12TDeptUS.png

Actually, the main difference is that we're not contending with extreme drought conditions across much of the Plains and SE. So that positive feedback loop of increasingly warm weather won't be nearly as impressive this time around.

2010-2012 was in a league of its own, like our own modern dust bowl. No way we see anything close to a repeat of that, at least not any time soon. 

us-drought-map.jpg

2012single.jpg

 

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20 minutes ago, Powerball said:

Actually, the main difference is that we're not contending with extreme drought conditions across much of the Plains and SE. So that positive feedback loop of increasingly warm weather won't be nearly as impressive this time around.

2010-2012 was in a league of its own, like our own modern dust bowl. No way we see anything close to a repeat of that, at least not any time soon. 

us-drought-map.jpg

2012single.jpg

 

That's a good point about the drought. Even in February 2012, it was much farther along than it is now, especially in the Plains.

It can spiral quickly (there was no sign of drought in the Midwest at this time in 2012) but yeah, you can never really count on 2012 style drought/heat.

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16 minutes ago, weatherbo said:

Snow starting up here this morning with 4-5" expected, then another unprecedented type winter thaw for the north woods.  Watch March be cold and stormy.

Bo, you should research the Winter of 1995-96...I imagine it was close to record snowfall and/or snow cover days in the UP.

As an example...in Minocqua WI (around 46N), they had 175 consecutive days of snow cover that season...from 11/10/1995 through 5/2/1996.  That is crazy, especially since they're barely on the edge of the snowbelt and "only" average around 90" of annual snowfall.  Very long snow season in 1995-96 as well; there was 17" of snow in April and 4.5" in May. 

Snow depth had an initial peak at 30" in early Feb, just in time for the historic arctic outbreak when low temps dropped to the -40's for three consecutive nights.  Then, the depth dropped slightly until a big storm hit in late March...when the snow depth hit 33" on March 26.

Then there's the opposite extreme of 2011-12, when there were 6 consecutive days in the 70's in late March, at a time when the normal high is in the upper 30's.

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On 2/13/2017 at 0:03 AM, michsnowfreak said:

In marquette.  Lots of snow here. Drove through quite a bit of Lake effect. I'd say the deepest was munising. It's interesting how the depth varies up here. I'd say 20" in gaylord with gorgeous plastered scenery, down to like 6" at the bridge, probably 30-36" in munising. Marquette not sure as I've only been in the city so obviously lots of piled snow so harder to tell depth.

The deepest was 10 miles south of Grand Marais on M-77. I have a cottage in that area that I'm considering buying. They have 48 inches on the ground with about 10 inches of liquid in the snow.

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1 hour ago, beavis1729 said:

Bo, you should research the Winter of 1995-96...I imagine it was close to record snowfall and/or snow cover days in the UP.

As an example...in Minocqua WI (around 46N), they had 175 consecutive days of snow cover that season...from 11/10/1995 through 5/2/1996.  That is crazy, especially since they're barely on the edge of the snowbelt and "only" average around 90" of annual snowfall.  Very long snow season in 1995-96 as well; there was 17" of snow in April and 4.5" in May. 

Snow depth had an initial peak at 30" in early Feb, just in time for the historic arctic outbreak when low temps dropped to the -40's for three consecutive nights.  Then, the depth dropped slightly until a big storm hit in late March...when the snow depth hit 33" on March 26.

Then there's the opposite extreme of 2011-12, when there were 6 consecutive days in the 70's in late March, at a time when the normal high is in the upper 30's.

I'll have to check that winter out.  I know a guy that has spoken of that winter often as "hell up here".  I know in '14-15 I had 178 days of continuous snow cover, from Halloween 'til April 27th.  I think average for this area is around 160 days.  Currently at 85 days of constant snow cover.  Not sure where this winter ends up...anything is possible.  I still remember March 31-April 11th last year 54" of snow.

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4 hours ago, cyclone77 said:

Euro now has 7 consecutive days of 60+ at MLI starting Friday.  Has 69 for Monday, so even a 70 degree day isn't off the table.  All-time record for Feb is only 73, so it's not out of the question that could be threatened if temps overachieve one of those days.

MLI has had 1 streak of 60+ temps in February that lasted 7 days... in 1930. The second longest streak was a 5 day streak in 2000 (that would've been 8 days long but was interrupted by 1 day under 60).

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