jm1220 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, pazzo83 said: One thing we can all agree on now though is that NYC proper is definitely in the humid subtropical climate zone. I'm starting to wonder how many more years it'll be before cold hardy palm trees can survive here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, donsutherland1 said: And decedent snowfall to go with it. Those in RIC would almost certainly love to have received the snow we have, so far. In some ways these last two winters remind me of spring in the Rockies where you can get decent snowstorms coexisting with mild temperatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 33 minutes ago, pazzo83 said: Having grown up near that climate, the past two winters here have definitely felt like a typical VA piedmont winter. How much more do we have to go to be more like Norfolk/Va Beach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian5671 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 28 minutes ago, jm1220 said: I'm starting to wonder how many more years it'll be before cold hardy palm trees can survive here. you'll need all winters to be like 01-02, 11-12 or this one. Almost no cold air at all this winter and those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 minute ago, bluewave said: In some ways these last two winters remind me of spring in the Rockies where you can get decent snowstorms coexisting with mild temperatures. lol Denver....... The thing that puts us in uncharted territory is that we've never experienced such consistent warmth at such a high latitude on the east coastal plain. The high latitude is helping us in the snowfall department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 16 minutes ago, Paragon said: How much more do we have to go to be more like Norfolk/Va Beach? Actually, we are probably closer to them than you think due to the maritime influence. Look at average lows for our 3 winter months this year: Dec: 33F Jan: 33F Feb: 34F And let's look at averages (1980-2010) for ORF (Norfolk / VA Beach): Dec: 36F Jan: 33F Feb: 34F RIC is actually colder (1980-2010 avgs): Dec: 31F Jan: 28F Feb: 31F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 minute ago, pazzo83 said: Actually, we are probably closer to them than you think due to the maritime influence. Look at average lows for our 3 winter months this year: Dec: 33F Jan: 33F Feb: 34F And let's look at averages (1980-2010) for ORF (Norfolk / VA Beach): Dec: 36F Jan: 33F Feb: 34F RIC is actually colder (1980-2010 avgs): Dec: 31F Jan: 28F Feb: 31F No wonder our climate classification is like that lol. Once our warming gets to the level of where the NC coastal area is right now is when I feel like our snowfall totals will drop off a cliff. What we have going for us is our latitude and warmer SST that let storms bomb more quickly and draw down cold air (when available) from further north and of course the availability of more moisture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 12 minutes ago, Paragon said: lol Denver....... The thing that puts us in uncharted territory is that we've never experienced such consistent warmth at such a high latitude on the east coastal plain. The high latitude is helping us in the snowfall department. Until last year, I don't think anyone would have thought that a place like JFK could see a 40 inch seasonal snowfall with a 40 degree DJF average. This year we are following up with another near 40 degree DJF and over 20 and 30 inches in spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Just now, bluewave said: Until last year, I don't think anyone would have thought that a place like JFK could see a 40 inch seasonal snowfall with a 40 degree DJF average. This year we are following up with another near 40 degree DJF and over 20 and 30 inches in spots. I remember you said that the only place that had that 40/40 combo on the east coast before this was Norfolk, Va. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Also - how remarkable is it that in every month this winter, our average low was above freezing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 8 minutes ago, Paragon said: I remember you said that the only place that had that 40/40 combo on the east coast before this was Norfolk, Va. That's right. The 79-80 winter in Norfolk was their 2nd snowiest on record at 38.6" while the DJF average temp was 40.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, jm1220 said: I'm starting to wonder how many more years it'll be before cold hardy palm trees can survive here. Large parts of the city are probably now in the 8a hardiness zone (min temp > 10F). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, pazzo83 said: One thing we can all agree on now though is that NYC proper is definitely in the humid subtropical climate zone. We have met the Trewartha classification for subtropical climate in 2015 and 2016 by having 8 or more months each year with an average temperature of 50 degrees. In the Trewartha scheme the "C" climate group encompasses Subtropical climates that have 8 or more months with a mean temperature of 10 °C (50 °F) or higher. There are only two types within the "C" or subtropical climate group, Cs which is a dry -summer or Mediterraneanclimate, and a Cf or humid Subtropical climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongBeachSurfFreak Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, jm1220 said: I'm starting to wonder how many more years it'll be before cold hardy palm trees can survive here. They already do. Windmill palms a good example. They are from the Himalayas and can handle cold to around zero. There is new construction Mediterranean style mansion up in great neck that has at least a dozen on the front yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 21 minutes ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said: They already do. Windmill palms a good example. They are from the Himalayas and can handle cold to around zero. There is new construction Mediterranean style mansion up in great neck that has at least a dozen on the front yard. Do you think parts of the city could technically be in an 8a hardiness zone now (the USDA currently has the entire city and most of LI in 7b)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, pazzo83 said: Do you think parts of the city could technically be in an 8a hardiness zone now (the USDA currently has the entire city and most of LI in 7b)? No because just last year the City reached -1F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyWx Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, pazzo83 said: Do you think parts of the city could technically be in an 8a hardiness zone now (the USDA currently has the entire city and most of LI in 7b)? And not too far inland I'm in the 6b hardiness zone, very close to 6a. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, nzucker said: No because just last year the City reached -1F. That's an outlier though. SE VA is in 8a and they got well below zero this January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cfa Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 hours ago, jm1220 said: I'm starting to wonder how many more years it'll be before cold hardy palm trees can survive here. They already can, they aren't common, but I've seen them on occasion. Some of the botanical gardens around here grow them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyWx Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Here's a snapshot of the hardiness map, this is the interactive version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cfa Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 9 minutes ago, pazzo83 said: Do you think parts of the city could technically be in an 8a hardiness zone now (the USDA currently has the entire city and most of LI in 7b)? There's definitely pockets of 8a in the city. LGA is already borderline, their average annual minimum temp is 9°F, zone 8a begins at 10°F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 By my quick math, it looks like the avg minimum temp for the Park over the last 11 years (from 2006) is 8.42F. BUT - at LGA, it's 10.08F. So it would seem parts of the city are barely in the 8a zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, Cfa said: There's definitely pockets of 8a in the city. LGA is already borderline, their average annual minimum temp is 9°F, zone 8a begins at 10°F. Yea, I'd say the heavily urbanized parts of the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailMan06 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, pazzo83 said: Large parts of the city are probably now in the 8a hardiness zone (min temp > 10F). I've been thinking over the past few years that my town in Central NJ (Bernardsville) is really in zone 7a. I can only remember like 3 or 4 times that my area dropped below 0F over the last 12 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongBeachSurfFreak Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 14 minutes ago, pazzo83 said: Yea, I'd say the heavily urbanized parts of the city. A place like midtown for sure. Its more about sustained cold then one night below zero. A 48 hour period with temps below 20 and lots of wind is going to do allot more damage to sensitive vegetation then a few hours around zero with light winds. I lost most of my Crape Myrtle during 15 and it's flourished last winter despite last winter having a lower coldest temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 21 minutes ago, pazzo83 said: By my quick math, it looks like the avg minimum temp for the Park over the last 11 years (from 2006) is 8.42F. BUT - at LGA, it's 10.08F. So it would seem parts of the city are barely in the 8a zone. If we just go by the last 10 years, I'm pretty sure that we've had more years with lows in the teens than we did with lows in the single digits. Even some snowy years like 2009-10 had the lowest temps in the teens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 29 minutes ago, JerseyWx said: Here's a snapshot of the hardiness map, this is the interactive version. Thanks for this, where can I find the original map? I want to check out some other locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I wish we could get to the temperature period 1991-2020 already and see what the new "averages" will be like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cfa Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 23 minutes ago, pazzo83 said: Yea, I'd say the heavily urbanized parts of the city. I think the Rockaways, Long Beach, & possibly Coney Island would qualify as well. And then you have interior areas of Staten Island that fall into zone 7a. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Cfa said: I think the Rockaways, Long Beach, & possibly Coney Island would qualify as well. And then you have interior areas of Staten Island that fall into zone 7a. Some of those areas radiate very well though. For example, here in SW Nassau County my low temps are usually several degrees colder than LGA and on those radiating nights JFK is colder than NYC and LGA also. But I still don't recall as many yearly mins in the single digits as I do the teens. It wasn't like this back in the 80s and 90s when we clearly had way more lows in the single digits than we had in the teens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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