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February 2017 Discussion & Observations


dmillz25

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30 minutes ago, bluewave said:

+2 is going to be too low for this month once we get to about 10 days out. Current monthly departures are +2.3 to +3.6.

Places like LGA will probably be near or over +5 on the month by Feb 24th. We'll then see how the last few days

of the month work out for the final departures. Several stations will finish with the second top ten warmest winter in a row.

Nevertheless what we care about most is snow and most areas around NYC and further north probably will end up with average to above average snowfall.

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4 minutes ago, WEATHERBUFF said:

Nevertheless what we care about most is snow and most areas around NYC and further north probably will end up with average to above average snowfall.

Well you only need one or two days below normal each month to get above normal snowfall.  The storm tracks seem to be getting closer to the coast thanks to the warmer SST too, which also results in quicker and more extreme bombogenesis.  Back in the 80s when the winters were MUCH colder (especially January) we got cold and dry a lot because the tracks were much more suppressed and out to sea- and the storms were also weaker (aside from Feb 1983 of course, thanks to a Super El Nino.)

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45 minutes ago, WEATHERBUFF said:

It's been normal than normal all winter..what's new!

The warmth should be more impressive than the average for the month.

From earlier in this thread, some statistics (2/15-25/1981-2010 period) for EPO+/PNA+/AO+ dates:

Mean temperature: 42.6° (climatology: 38.1°)
% days with high temperatures of 50° or above: 49% (climatology: 29%)
% days with low temperatures of 32° or below: 31% (climatology: 55%)

New York City's average temperatures have continued to warm at a gradual but steady pace, so the departure adjusted for the observed warming would be around +5° for such patterns. The current guidance suggests that the upcoming warmth will be somewhat greater than that.

So, overall, based on where things stand, I'd expect the temperature to reach or exceed 50° on 2-4 days during the 1/18-24 period. The temperature could approach or exceed 60° on one of those days. I also expect 1 or fewer days during that 7-day period with a low temperature of 32° or below with 0 days more likely than 1. Overall, my guess is that the 1/18-24 period will probably see an average anomaly of +5.5° to +7.0°. That's above the monthly anomaly of +2.3° through yesterday.

Should the PNA go negative, as is suggested by a few ensemble members, the outcome would be even warmer than what I'm thinking right now.

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10 minutes ago, WEATHERBUFF said:

Nevertheless what we care about most is snow and most areas around NYC and further north probably will end up with average to above average snowfall.

First two winters in a row for the area where all 3 winter months finish with a positive temperature departure and over 20" of snow.

I believe that this will be only the 5th such occurrence since the late 1940's. If I am missing a winter, then let me know. Our last

cold winter month here February 2015 really did it in style. I guess mother nature used up all the cold air on that -10 or lower month.

All 3 winter months with above normal temps and over 20" of snow:

2016-2017...2015-2016...1990-1991..1982-1983...1948-1949

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7 minutes ago, bluewave said:

First two winters in a row for the area where all 3 winter months finish with a positive temperature departure and over 20" of snow.

I believe that this will be only the 5th such occurrence since the late 1940's. If I am missing a winter, then let me know. Our last

cold winter month here February 2015 really did it in style. I guess mother nature used up all the cold air on that -10 or lower month.

All 3 winter months with above normal temps and over 20" of snow:

2016-2017...2015-2016...1990-1991..1982-1983...1948-1949

lol were winters 34-35 and 35-36 this mild after Feb 1934, BW? ;-)

Last winter broke all sorts of records for warmth+record snowfall

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14 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

The warmth should be more impressive than the average for the month.

From earlier in this thread, some statistics (2/15-25/1981-2010 period) for EPO+/PNA+/AO+ dates:

Mean temperature: 42.6° (climatology: 38.1°)
% days with high temperatures of 50° or above: 49% (climatology: 29%)
% days with low temperatures of 32° or below: 31% (climatology: 55%)

New York City's average temperatures have continued to warm at a gradual but steady pace, so the departure adjusted for the observed warming would be around +5° for such patterns. The current guidance suggests that the upcoming warmth will be somewhat greater than that.

So, overall, based on where things stand, I'd expect the temperature to reach or exceed 50° on 2-4 days during the 1/18-24 period. The temperature could approach or exceed 60° on one of those days. I also expect 1 or fewer days during that 7-day period with a low temperature of 32° or below with 0 days more likely than 1. Overall, my guess is that the 1/18-24 period will probably see an average anomaly of +5.5° to +7.0°. That's above the monthly anomaly of +2.3° through yesterday.

Should the PNA go negative, as is suggested by a few ensemble members, the outcome would be even warmer than what I'm thinking right now.

Good news is from 2/25 afterwards we are progged to go below normal for awhile and into March.

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26 minutes ago, bluewave said:

The storm coming into SOCAL later this week is forecast to reach near -6SD below normal pressures for that area. That should really pump the downstream 

ridge over the Great Lakes and East.

 

gfs_mslp_sig_noram_18.png

Usually, when a big full latitude trough digs into the west in late February/early March, that normally signals an end to winter for us

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1 minute ago, snowman19 said:

Usually, when a big full latitude trough digs into the west in late February/early March, that normally signals an end to winter for us

I think the euro weeklies also show the trough going back to the west.  They are warm for the next 30-45 days outside of a small period in mid March.

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11 minutes ago, Brian5671 said:

I think the euro weeklies also show the trough going back to the west.  They are warm for the next 30-45 days outside of a small period in mid March.

Euro weeklies have been bad this winter so I would'nt count on that alone. I do think we see a bit more snow, especially NYC and north.

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so far this winter the coldest consecutive 30 days averaged 35.6 from December into January...this is among the highest for the coldest periods each year...Last year was another warm one averaging 34.4...2015 was a cold one averaging 23.9...normal or average since 1930 is around 29.0...

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29 minutes ago, Brian5671 said:

I think the euro weeklies also show the trough going back to the west.  They are warm for the next 30-45 days outside of a small period in mid March.

This winter fit the Modoki La Niña/+QBO/low solar/neutral PDO analogs very well. December was the "coldest" (if you want to call it that) month, predominant -PNA, +NAO, +AO, no big long lasting -EPO like the previous few winters. Dec - Feb fit very well. March should continue that exact same theme...

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9 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

This winter fit the Modoki La Niña/+QBO/low solar/neutral PDO analogs very well. December was the "coldest" (if you want to call it that) month, predominant -PNA, +NAO, +AO, no big long lasting -EPO like the previous few winters. Dec - Feb fit very well. March should continue that exact same theme...

thoughts on Spring/Summer?  

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10 minutes ago, Brian5671 said:

thoughts on Spring/Summer?  

I haven't given much thought to summer yet but I think March and April are both warmer than normal in the east now. The strong +QBO is unrelenting which strongly argues against any sustained -NAO blocking. I also think the propensity for -PNA continues the next 2 months as well

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27 minutes ago, uncle W said:

so far this winter the coldest consecutive 30 days averaged 35.6 from December into January...this is among the highest for the coldest periods each year...Last year was another warm one averaging 34.4...2015 was a cold one averaging 23.9...normal or average since 1930 is around 29.0...

A fascinating stat, and depressing for cold weather lovers like myself. The stretches for cold seem to be less and less each year.

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3 minutes ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said:

A fascinating stat, and depressing for cold weather lovers like myself. The stretches for cold seem to be less and less each year.

I did my own research on this subject and math...It is not official but this is what I came up with...red is above average...black near average...blue below average...the winters of 1948-49 to 1953-54 didn't have 30 days averaging below 30.0...we had one cold month in ten years...the 1990's had seven years above 30 for its coldest 30 days...

1929-30..........28.8

1930-31..........31.9
1931-32..........35.8
1932-33..........33.9
1933-34..........19.6
1934-35..........24.3
1935-36..........20.4
1936-37..........34.9
1937-38..........31.4
1938-39..........29.3
1939-40..........24.9...10yr ave...27.64

1940-41..........28.8
1941-42..........29.0
1942-43..........28.7
1943-44..........28.8
1944-45..........23.8
1945-46..........31.4
1946-47..........29.3
1947-48..........21.5
1948-49..........36.3
1949-50..........31.6...10yr ave...28.92

1950-51..........33.0
1951-52..........31.9
1952-53..........35.5
1953-54..........30.3
1954-55..........28.6
1955-56..........27.6
1956-57..........27.8
1957-58..........28.1
1958-59..........28.5
1959-60..........30.3...10yr ave...30.16

1960-61..........24.6
1961-62..........30.9
1962-63..........25.9
1963-64..........31.1
1964-65..........28.0
1965-66..........28.5
1966-67..........28.6
1967-68..........25.1

1968-69..........30.4
1969-70..........24.0...10yr ave...27.71

1970-71..........24.2
1971-72..........28.6
1972-73..........32.0
1973-74..........32.3
1974-75..........33.0
1975-76..........27.1
1976-77..........21.9
1977-78..........26.2
1978-79..........26.0
1979-80..........30.9...10yr ave...28.22

 

1980-81..........22.2
1981-82..........25.2
1982-83..........32.9
1983-84..........26.1
1984-85..........27.5
1985-86..........31.0
1986-87..........29.3
1987-88..........28.3
1988-89..........32.4
1989-90..........25.3...10yr ave...29.02

1990-91..........34.5
1991-92..........30.3
1992-93..........31.0
1993-94..........23.5
1994-95..........31.5
1995-96..........27.7
1996-97..........31.7
1997-98..........37.3*** warmest
1998-99..........31.3
1999-00..........26.2...10yr ave...30.50

2000-01..........29.9
2001-02..........35.4
2002-03..........25.9
2003-04..........22.5
2004-05..........29.5
2005-06..........33.5
2006-07..........25.8
2007-08..........35.7
2008-09..........27.9
2009-10..........31.6...10yr ave...29.77

2010-11..........28.1
2011-12..........37.0

2012-13..........31.5

2013-14..........28.5

2014-15..........23.9

2015-16..........34.4

2016-17..........35.5...12/10 to 1/9...

 

1930-15..........29.1

...............................................

19.6.....1/30 to 2/28 1934

20.4.....1/23 to 2/21 1936

21.5.....1/14 to 2/12 1948

21.9.....1/03 to 2/01 1977

22.2.....12/20-1/18 1980-81

22.5.....1/06 to 2/04 2004

23.5.....12/25-1/23 1993-94

23.8.....1/03 to 2/01 1945

23.9.....1/31-3/01/2015

24.0.....12/26-1/24 1969-70

24.2.....12/22-1/20 1970-71

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44 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

This winter fit the Modoki La Niña/+QBO/low solar/neutral PDO analogs very well. December was the "coldest" (if you want to call it that) month, predominant -PNA, +NAO, +AO, no big long lasting -EPO like the previous few winters. Dec - Feb fit very well. March should continue that exact same theme...

20 consecutive months above normal, I don't think you can go wrong much if you predict above normal temps, regardless of index values.  Let's say you predict +2 or higher departures every month, you'll probably be right 80% of the time (in any season.)

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9 minutes ago, uncle W said:

I did my own research on this subject and math...It is not official but this is what I came up with...red is above average...black near average...blue below average...the winters of 1948-49 to 1953-54 didn't have 30 days averaging below 30.0...we had one cold month in ten years...the 1990's had seven years above 30 for its coldest 30 days...

1929-30..........28.8

1930-31..........31.9
1931-32..........35.8
1932-33..........33.9
1933-34..........19.6
1934-35..........24.3
1935-36..........20.4
1936-37..........34.9
1937-38..........31.4
1938-39..........29.3
1939-40..........24.9...10yr ave...27.64

1940-41..........28.8
1941-42..........29.0
1942-43..........28.7
1943-44..........28.8
1944-45..........23.8
1945-46..........31.4
1946-47..........29.3
1947-48..........21.5
1948-49..........36.3
1949-50..........31.6...10yr ave...28.92

1950-51..........33.0
1951-52..........31.9
1952-53..........35.5
1953-54..........30.3
1954-55..........28.6
1955-56..........27.6
1956-57..........27.8
1957-58..........28.1
1958-59..........28.5
1959-60..........30.3...10yr ave...30.16

1960-61..........24.6
1961-62..........30.9
1962-63..........25.9
1963-64..........31.1
1964-65..........28.0
1965-66..........28.5
1966-67..........28.6
1967-68..........25.1

1968-69..........30.4
1969-70..........24.0...10yr ave...27.71

1970-71..........24.2
1971-72..........28.6
1972-73..........32.0
1973-74..........32.3
1974-75..........33.0
1975-76..........27.1
1976-77..........21.9
1977-78..........26.2
1978-79..........26.0
1979-80..........30.9...10yr ave...28.22

 

1980-81..........22.2
1981-82..........25.2
1982-83..........32.9
1983-84..........26.1
1984-85..........27.5
1985-86..........31.0
1986-87..........29.3
1987-88..........28.3
1988-89..........32.4
1989-90..........25.3...10yr ave...29.02

1990-91..........34.5
1991-92..........30.3
1992-93..........31.0
1993-94..........23.5
1994-95..........31.5
1995-96..........27.7
1996-97..........31.7
1997-98..........37.3*** warmest
1998-99..........31.3
1999-00..........26.2...10yr ave...30.50

2000-01..........29.9
2001-02..........35.4
2002-03..........25.9
2003-04..........22.5
2004-05..........29.5
2005-06..........33.5
2006-07..........25.8
2007-08..........35.7
2008-09..........27.9
2009-10..........31.6...10yr ave...29.77

2010-11..........28.1
2011-12..........37.0

2012-13..........31.5

2013-14..........28.5

2014-15..........23.9

2015-16..........34.4

2016-17..........35.5...12/10 to 1/9...

 

1930-15..........29.1

...............................................

19.6.....1/30 to 2/28 1934

20.4.....1/23 to 2/21 1936

21.5.....1/14 to 2/12 1948

21.9.....1/03 to 2/01 1977

22.2.....12/20-1/18 1980-81

22.5.....1/06 to 2/04 2004

23.5.....12/25-1/23 1993-94

23.8.....1/03 to 2/01 1945

23.9.....1/31-3/01/2015

24.0.....12/26-1/24 1969-70

24.2.....12/22-1/20 1970-71

Wow the 90s really stand out for warmth.  And that's even with two historic winters tossed in there.

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22 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

I haven't given much thought to summer yet but I think March and April are both warmer than normal in the east now. The strong +QBO is unrelenting which strongly argues against any sustained -NAO blocking. I also think the propensity for -PNA continues the next 2 months as well

Well that is a lot better than cold and rain at any rate ;-)

I do think we get one more snow event late Feb / early Mar all you need is one or two days below normal- as the last two winters have demonstrated.

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25 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

I haven't given much thought to summer yet but I think March and April are both warmer than normal in the east now. The strong +QBO is unrelenting which strongly argues against any sustained -NAO blocking. I also think the propensity for -PNA continues the next 2 months as well

Predict +2 all the time, you'll be right way more often than wrong.

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2 hours ago, Brian5671 said:

Easy +4 to perhaps even +6.  The warmth often overperforms what's modeled and that's one hell of a torch as modeled.   Earlier this fall, some said December would be the coldest month of Met winter (in relation to normals) and that looks to be correct (+2 Dec, +6 Jan and perhaps +4 to +6 for Feb)

December was only +0.8F at Central Park.

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4 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

White Plains had sustained winds at tropical storm force for two hours and 50 mph or greater gusts for five hours.

HPN02132017.jpg

Question, Don, how is it that all this damage was reported on Long Island and thousands of power outages yet no one reported a wind gust in the 60s or higher?  Just based on how much my house was shaking, the winds were easily 60+ here and for many hours.

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4 minutes ago, Paragon said:

Question, Don, how is it that all this damage was reported on Long Island and thousands of power outages yet no one reported a wind gust in the 60s or higher?  Just based on how much my house was shaking, the winds were easily 60+ here and for many hours.

Actually, the updated PNS showed a number of locations with wind gusts past 60 mph on Long Island.

000
NOUS41 KOKX 132140
PNSOKX
CTZ005>012-NJZ002-004-006-103>108-NYZ067>075-078>081-176>179-140940-

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
SPOTTER REPORTS
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY
440 PM EST MON FEB 13 2017

THE FOLLOWING ARE UNOFFICIAL OBSERVATIONS TAKEN DURING THE PAST 18
HOURS FOR THE STORM THAT HAS BEEN AFFECTING OUR REGION. APPRECIATION
IS EXTENDED TO HIGHWAY DEPARTMENTS...COOPERATIVE OBSERVERS...SKYWARN
SPOTTERS AND MEDIA FOR THESE REPORTS. THIS SUMMARY IS ALSO AVAILABLE
ON OUR HOME PAGE AT WEATHER.GOV/NYC

***********************PEAK WIND GUST***********************

LOCATION             MAX WIND     TIME/DATE   COMMENTS
                        GUST            OF
                         MPH    MEASUREMENT


...NASSAU COUNTY...
   1 WNW SANDS POINT       72   848 AM  2/13  MESONET
   1 E POINT LOOKOUT       64  1038 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   2 NNE GLEN COVE         56   821 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 SE SYOSSET            51   100 PM  2/13  NONFEDAWOS
   LOCUST VALLEY           51   256 PM  2/13  CWOP
   SYOSSET                 50   734 AM  2/13  TRAINED SPOTTER
   1 E UNIONDALE           47   801 AM  2/13  CWOP
   1 WNW MUTTONTOWN        46   314 PM  2/13  CWOP
   HEWLETT                 43  1116 AM  2/13  CWOP
   BETHPAGE                40   124 PM  2/13  NONFEDAWOS

...SUFFOLK COUNTY...
   4 NE CALVERTON          67   205 PM  2/13  CWOP
   1 ENE VERNON VALLEY     64   105 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 ENE MECOX             64   115 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   EATONS NECK             59   530 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   FARMINGDALE AIRPORT     58  1158 AM  2/13  ASOS
   1 ENE MONTAUK HIGHWA    58  1015 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   ORIENT                  58  1101 AM  2/13  TRAINED SPOTTER
   3 SE HAMPTON BAYS       55   235 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   2 WNW CAPTREE STATE     55   134 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   2 W HITHER HILLS STA    53  1007 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 ESE NAPEAGUE          53   937 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   CAPTREE STATE PARK      52   139 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   ISLIP AIRPORT           51  1047 AM  2/13  ASOS
   1 WSW ROBERT MOSES S    51   139 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 ESE COPIAGUE          50   927 AM  2/13  CWOP
   SHIRLEY AIRPORT         48  1054 AM  2/13  ASOS
   WESTHAMPTON AIRPORT     48  1201 PM  2/13  ASOS
   1 SSE EAST MORICHES     47  1116 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 NNW MATTITUCK         46  1015 AM  2/13  CWOP
   1 SW MONTAUK            46   352 PM  2/13  CWOP
   1 SE AMITYVILLE         46   105 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 ENE ORIENT POINT      45  1000 AM  2/13  MESONET
   MONTAUK AIRPORT         44   947 AM  2/13  ASOS
   2 WSW FISHERS ISLAND    44  1120 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 E EAST MORICHES       43  1047 AM  2/13  CWOP
   ORIENT                  43   224 PM  2/13  CWOP
   1 S BLUE POINT          43   930 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   BLUE POINT              42   555 AM  2/13  CWOP
   EAST HAMPTON            41  1055 AM  2/13  AWOS

 

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3 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

Actually, the updated PNS showed a number of locations with wind gusts past 60 mph on Long Island.

000
NOUS41 KOKX 132140
PNSOKX
CTZ005>012-NJZ002-004-006-103>108-NYZ067>075-078>081-176>179-140940-

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
SPOTTER REPORTS
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY
440 PM EST MON FEB 13 2017

THE FOLLOWING ARE UNOFFICIAL OBSERVATIONS TAKEN DURING THE PAST 18
HOURS FOR THE STORM THAT HAS BEEN AFFECTING OUR REGION. APPRECIATION
IS EXTENDED TO HIGHWAY DEPARTMENTS...COOPERATIVE OBSERVERS...SKYWARN
SPOTTERS AND MEDIA FOR THESE REPORTS. THIS SUMMARY IS ALSO AVAILABLE
ON OUR HOME PAGE AT WEATHER.GOV/NYC

***********************PEAK WIND GUST***********************

LOCATION             MAX WIND     TIME/DATE   COMMENTS
                        GUST            OF
                         MPH    MEASUREMENT


...NASSAU COUNTY...
   1 WNW SANDS POINT       72   848 AM  2/13  MESONET
   1 E POINT LOOKOUT       64  1038 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   2 NNE GLEN COVE         56   821 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 SE SYOSSET            51   100 PM  2/13  NONFEDAWOS
   LOCUST VALLEY           51   256 PM  2/13  CWOP
   SYOSSET                 50   734 AM  2/13  TRAINED SPOTTER
   1 E UNIONDALE           47   801 AM  2/13  CWOP
   1 WNW MUTTONTOWN        46   314 PM  2/13  CWOP
   HEWLETT                 43  1116 AM  2/13  CWOP
   BETHPAGE                40   124 PM  2/13  NONFEDAWOS

...SUFFOLK COUNTY...
   4 NE CALVERTON          67   205 PM  2/13  CWOP
   1 ENE VERNON VALLEY     64   105 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 ENE MECOX             64   115 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   EATONS NECK             59   530 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   FARMINGDALE AIRPORT     58  1158 AM  2/13  ASOS
   1 ENE MONTAUK HIGHWA    58  1015 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   ORIENT                  58  1101 AM  2/13  TRAINED SPOTTER
   3 SE HAMPTON BAYS       55   235 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   2 WNW CAPTREE STATE     55   134 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   2 W HITHER HILLS STA    53  1007 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 ESE NAPEAGUE          53   937 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   CAPTREE STATE PARK      52   139 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   ISLIP AIRPORT           51  1047 AM  2/13  ASOS
   1 WSW ROBERT MOSES S    51   139 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 ESE COPIAGUE          50   927 AM  2/13  CWOP
   SHIRLEY AIRPORT         48  1054 AM  2/13  ASOS
   WESTHAMPTON AIRPORT     48  1201 PM  2/13  ASOS
   1 SSE EAST MORICHES     47  1116 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 NNW MATTITUCK         46  1015 AM  2/13  CWOP
   1 SW MONTAUK            46   352 PM  2/13  CWOP
   1 SE AMITYVILLE         46   105 PM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 ENE ORIENT POINT      45  1000 AM  2/13  MESONET
   MONTAUK AIRPORT         44   947 AM  2/13  ASOS
   2 WSW FISHERS ISLAND    44  1120 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   1 E EAST MORICHES       43  1047 AM  2/13  CWOP
   ORIENT                  43   224 PM  2/13  CWOP
   1 S BLUE POINT          43   930 AM  2/13  WXFLOW
   BLUE POINT              42   555 AM  2/13  CWOP
   EAST HAMPTON            41  1055 AM  2/13  AWOS

 

Thanks Don, unfortunately the local TV stations only report airport wind speeds :(  It's good to see that the 60+ winds had a much wider coverage.

Saw a few 70+ reports in there too!

 

There's a few laggers in the 40s range on the east end and south shore, which I find suspect because those are usually the windiest places on the Island, that's probably a siting issue?

 

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