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February Medium/Long Range Discussion Thread


North Balti Zen

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2 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

MJO just texted me and said it's wrong. 

With all of the conflicting signals in the long range - I have 0% confidence in any pattern being shown beyond day 7. Second half of February is still a coin flip IMHO.  Now if the MJO fails, the AO fails, the NAO fails, PNA fails then we can start talking about a warm second half of the month.

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2 minutes ago, kurtstack said:

With all of the conflicting signals in the long range - I have 0% confidence in any pattern being shown beyond day 7. Second half of February is still a coin flip IMHO.  Now if the MJO fails, the AO fails, the NAO fails, PNA fails then we can start talking about a warm second half of the month.

Heads it's warm, tails it's cold.

 

twoheadednickel.jpg

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48 minutes ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

As far as I know, there has only been one storm that happened south of us.  Other storms, and I'm not counting that weak little clipper that buzzed through here a couple of days ago, have all trended north on models.  Or west, however you want to look at it. That was the key thing with the early Jan miss to the south.  It was too far east, not too far south.

The look of the gfs, IMO, almost guarantees that, if that storm even exists, that it won't have any problem trending north.  That confluence, suppression, etc. in the ne has been over modeled almost every time. And this time, the ridge axis out west is over Wash/Cal, not Montana/NM.

Yea that one storm that hit south of us seems to be over exaggerated as a "trend" this year.  Maybe because it was the only freaking significant snow event anywhere in the general vicinity all winter.  Now if we get 2 more storms that go just southeast of us this winter then yea I will admit it was a seasonal trend but so far we have had one storm of any significance go south, and nothing else even remotely in the area.  Yea a few light piddly type events went north and a clipper went south but come on those are barely worth considering as they were they general insignificant things you will get once in a while even in the worse winters.  The real problem is while the long range has teased us with patterns that COULD hold potential we have really only carried one threat of significance into the medium range (inside 120 hours) and yea it went south of us.  But the problem isnt that it missed but that we only had one realistic legit threat of a significant snow all winter.  Even in our best winters we dont hit 100 percent.  2013/14 there were misses.  We had a higher then normal hit rate for sure but we still needed a few threats to actually get a snow.  So if we get through the winter with only a few legit chances at a storm and we dont get one the problem isnt some seasonal memory to hit one location or another it was the overall pattern not giving us enough chances IMO. 

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Another thing off about this year compared to more typical east coast winters is that there have been no patterns that have produced "bunches" of storms in the same general area. That's a testament to how bad it's been everywhere. 

2015 was a stark example with Jan/early feb in SNE and the mid Feb/mid Mar here. There have been times where the SE gets a cluster of storms and then the bullseye moves. Even our mediocre winters here normally have a couple 2 week periods where it snows more than once. This year has just been flat out crappy everywhere in the east. Wisp has like 40" of snow for the year and 12" of that fell recently. The ski resorts in SNE started off hot but then faded. SNE hasn't even had a "cycle of storms" this year. Weird. 

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5 minutes ago, Wonderdog said:

GFS has changed by 100 to 200 miles in 6 hours. Straight east from Georgia at 6z. Now turning up the coast with snow in Virginia at 12z. Maybe it will end up in Chicago before all is said and done. 

This is my biggest worry. I've bitten too early too many times this year. I'll be waiting for this to come within 5 days. 

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IMG_0507.GIF

mjo keeps trending stronger into 8. One thing odd is that is a model forecast. The same model that also has a not so cold look. So it's factoring that in and saying hmm yea I see that but I think these other factors will override it and make it warmer. To be fair both the EPS and gefs have a muted Easterm trough and the temp pattern looks like phase 8 but biased or skewed warm. So the problem is can the mjo overcome what's obviously some base state problems with other pattern drivers.  It sure looks strong but it better be. Still waiting to see some sign of help from the strat. Gefs look was better 12z. Maybe given those factors things trend better instead of worse this time. Said I was playing one more hand this winter so this is it if I don't get some face cards soon. 

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2 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

IMG_0507.GIF

mjo keeps trending stronger into 8. One thing odd is that is a model forecast. The same model that also has a not so cold look. So it's factoring that in and saying hmm yea I see that but I think these other factors will override it and make it warmer. To be fair both the EPS and gefs have a muted Easterm trough and the temp pattern looks like phase 8 but biased or skewed warm. So the problem is can the mjo overcome what's obviously some base state problems with other pattern drivers.  It sure looks strong but it better be. Still waiting to see some sign of help from the strat. Gefs look was better 12z. Maybe given those factors things trend better instead of worse this time. Said I was playing one more hand this winter so this is it if I don't get some face cards soon. 

RNA pattern keeps pushing Pac air across the country and it's killing us.

 

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2 minutes ago, yoda said:

Maybe some storms from the 12z EURO system? :lol:

      certainly possible, even with the 12z GFS solution.   A super deep sfc low passing by to our northwest at this time of year can produce convection even if the cold front comes through at the wrong time of day.    And if the timing changes, maybe we can have a 2/24/16 repeat....

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3 minutes ago, high risk said:

      certainly possible, even with the 12z GFS solution.   A super deep sfc low passing by to our northwest at this time of year can produce convection even if the cold front comes through at the wrong time of day.    And if the timing changes, maybe we can have a 2/24/16 repeat....

Could be breezy if it mixes down...

 

ecmwf_mslp_uv850_neus_7.png

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