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February Medium/Long Range Discussion Thread


North Balti Zen

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Quick note on the 500's that I forgot to mention previously. The ridging into Greenland that is key in our potential storm with forcing the PV southward has come in weaker over the 12Z run. Probably why the 00Z EPS seemed to move away from the possibility of suppression. Also the east coast trough has a better overall look then we saw with the 12Z. 

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22 minutes ago, Wonderdog said:

Since it hasn't snowed at all this year, is it not safe to say that the op runs were more accurate than any of the mid to long range ensemble runs so far? Still think the Canadian LP needs to disappear.

Canadian low? Are you talking the PV? That is the key for us to see snow in our region. We need to see that pressed southward by ridging through Greenland otherwise we are SOL. 

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Good ens recaps this morning. I sorta expected to wake up and click the eps/gefs panels and watch the good look slip away 12 hours at a time.  Lol. 

I agree that the d8-10 deal has potential to deliver even with a west track. The departing high is pretty cold and is slow to escape for once. 

The goal posts are going to remain pretty wide for at least another 3 days. It's going to be hard and or fun to watch. 

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1 minute ago, PaEasternWX said:

Never. or 2018 ;)

Just so you know, when I post that, I'm making fun of people who ask that ridiculous crap.

Back on topic...IMO, the eps and gefs don't offer much support for the latest op runs of each model in the 7-10 period.  Others?  Your thoughts?

I guess that would be a silver lining.

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These setups rarely work without a -NAO, even up here, because generally that piece of energy in Canada phases in too early as the "southern" disturbance traverses the Midwest.  The few times it doesn't phase in you usually end up with a system that is too weak and suppressed and is more of a mid south or TN Valley system.  Once in a great while the timing is perfect but these are usually New England events.   The models can headfake these pretty good too because they often miss that Canadian energy phasing in and blowing the system up until inside 108-96v

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15 minutes ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

Just so you know, when I post that, I'm making fun of people who ask that ridiculous crap.

Back on topic...IMO, the eps and gefs don't offer much support for the latest op runs of each model in the 7-10 period.  Others?  Your thoughts?

I guess that would be a silver lining.

 It seems at this point any solution is possible but that was probably already covered. I looked at the GEFS mean on tidbits and it did not seem to support the op. It supports the coastal solution. At this range learning from the long time posters here, we should pay attention more to the ensembles.

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27 minutes ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

Just so you know, when I post that, I'm making fun of people who ask that ridiculous crap.

Back on topic...IMO, the eps and gefs don't offer much support for the latest op runs of each model in the 7-10 period.  Others?  Your thoughts?

I guess that would be a silver lining.

The Op runs are certainly within the realm of reasonable possibility according to their ensembles. Therefore in a sense they do support them. That being said we will most likely see the ops flip back and forth from anywhere to cutters to suppressed solutions and anything in between in the foreseeable future. And this will follow what the models see upstairs with the ridging into Greenland and the corresponding response of the PV. This is well represented within the ensembles with the spread they are showing on the different members solutions.

Edit: Though admittedly after looking over the op runs again I will say they both border on the edges of guidance. The GFS with the western extent of the track and the Euro with the very suppressed look. 

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9 hours ago, Thanatos_I_Am said:

With pretty colors 

IMG_3543.PNG

I loved waking up to see these pretty pink colors over our area!  I know it's still in fantasy land, but it was great to see 4 pages of commentary overnight!  People have been talking about the good pattern for a storm around Feb 5-10 for quite a while now, so this seems like it has the best potential since the storm that went south (hopefully it's better than that one). I know better than to trust the Ops this far in advance and so I'm glad to hear of some pretty good Ensemble support.  How does the Ukie look?  

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34 minutes ago, SnowGoose69 said:

These setups rarely work without a -NAO, even up here, because generally that piece of energy in Canada phases in too early as the "southern" disturbance traverses the Midwest.  The few times it doesn't phase in you usually end up with a system that is too weak and suppressed and is more of a mid south or TN Valley system.  Once in a great while the timing is perfect but these are usually New England events.   The models can headfake these pretty good too because they often miss that Canadian energy phasing in and blowing the system up until inside 108-96v

Darn?

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11 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

The Op runs are certainly within the realm of reasonable possibility according to their ensembles. Therefore in a sense they do support them. That being said we will most likely see the ops flip back and forth from anywhere to cutters to suppressed solutions and anything in between in the foreseeable future. And this will follow what the models see upstairs with the ridging into Greenland and the corresponding response of the PV. This is well represented within the ensembles with the spread they are showing on the different members solutions.

I don't really agree.  For example, the day 9 system on the euro..9 members have the suppressed solution while 23 have a more amped northern solution.  This was taken from precip maps, not snow maps.

Yes the op is within the realm of possibility but I don't call that strong support.

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13 minutes ago, snowmagnet said:

I loved waking up to see these pretty pink colors over our area!  I know it's still in fantasy land, but it was great to see 4 pages of commentary overnight!  People have been talking about the good pattern for a storm around Feb 5-10 for quite a while now, so this seems like it has the best potential since the storm that went south (hopefully it's better than that one). I know better than to trust the Ops this far in advance and so I'm glad to hear of some pretty good Ensemble support.  How does the Ukie look?  

You know its wrong when it shows a DC jackpot

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4 minutes ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

I don't really agree.  For example, the day 9 system on the euro..9 members have the suppressed solution while 23 have a more amped northern solution.  This was taken from precip maps, not snow maps.

Yes the op is within the realm of possibility but I don't call that strong support.

Probably missed my edit to that post.

'Edit: Though admittedly after looking over the op runs again I will say they both border on the edges of guidance. The GFS with the western extent of the track and the Euro with the very suppressed look.'

And by the way, never mentioned strong support, just that in a sense they did support the feasibility of the solution. So these solutions just can't be thrown out and disregarded.

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46 minutes ago, SnowGoose69 said:

These setups rarely work without a -NAO, even up here, because generally that piece of energy in Canada phases in too early as the "southern" disturbance traverses the Midwest.  The few times it doesn't phase in you usually end up with a system that is too weak and suppressed and is more of a mid south or TN Valley system.  Once in a great while the timing is perfect but these are usually New England events.   The models can headfake these pretty good too because they often miss that Canadian energy phasing in and blowing the system up until inside 108-96v

An early phase would kill us but I'm not as pessimistic. It's not a perfect setup but there is enough blocking up top to displace the PV south to suppress the flow a bit. And we have lower heights to our northeast to create confluence ahead of the system, something we have been lacking.  When I dig through h5 analogs of snow here its amazing how having that feature is the most consistent across events more so then pna or nao features.  The flow has been progressive most of the year hopefully that helps here too. We don't want the system to come out slow and amped up out west. We will have cold in place and with the confluence the high will be slow to leave unlike every other setup this year. Probably why even the west track solutions try to get some front end snow. If we didn't have that PV lobe displaced in Quebec I would agree this had little chance. But I think there are enough contributing factors that could offset the obvious issue with the trough axis. It's bootleg but there is some blocking leading in. That said I see your point and the flaws and I'm not dismisding that this could go to crap without good timing. 

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1 hour ago, SnowGoose69 said:

These setups rarely work without a -NAO, even up here, because generally that piece of energy in Canada phases in too early as the "southern" disturbance traverses the Midwest.  The few times it doesn't phase in you usually end up with a system that is too weak and suppressed and is more of a mid south or TN Valley system.  Once in a great while the timing is perfect but these are usually New England events.   The models can headfake these pretty good too because they often miss that Canadian energy phasing in and blowing the system up until inside 108-96v

I agree

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41 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

Probably missed my edit to that post.

'Edit: Though admittedly after looking over the op runs again I will say they both border on the edges of guidance. The GFS with the western extent of the track and the Euro with the very suppressed look.'

And by the way, never mentioned strong support, just that in a sense they did support the feasibility of the solution. So these solutions just can't be thrown out and disregarded.

I agree, nothing is out of the realm.  I'd be more concerned though if there had been strong support.  You could say split the middle and probably have a decent shot at being close.

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