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January 2017 Discussion & Observations


dmillz25

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1 hour ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

So upton says blah Friday morning and hello sunshine this weekend. I totally see how that happens but it's going to be painful. Pallet after pallet of salt sitting here...

It's January 4th haha. It will snow...

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18 minutes ago, psv88 said:

It's January 4th haha. It will snow...

I agree, I don't see any reason why we do not have a decent February based on the indices.  That and following the trend of our current climate February has really been the "it" month. Even more so then during our full recorded climate records. More moisture to play with and the cooler ocean temps at that time allow for allot of blockbuster chances. It would be nice to see a return of more west based Nao blocking like we had in the late 2000's

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2 hours ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

So upton says blah Friday morning and hello sunshine this weekend. I totally see how that happens but it's going to be painful. Pallet after pallet of salt sitting here...

you'll be using some salt Friday-even a half inch with cold temps in the mid 20's will create the need-this stuff won't melt at the first ray of sun

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Unfortunately, as has often been the case with an AO+/PNA- pattern, it now appears very unlikely that New York City will receive an appreciable, much less significant snowfall. Since 1950, the City had received no snowfalls of 6” or more during such a pattern (https://www.americanwx.com/bb/topic/49434-january-2017-discussion-observations/?page=7#comment-4375730). The statistical probability of such an outcome was low, but not near zero.

Such a pattern favors light snowfalls. That should be the case Thursday night into Friday morning. It should again be the case Saturday night into Sunday. In fact, on a statistical basis, there would be a one-in-five chance that there would be no snowfall whatsoever this weekend. Certainly some of the guidance points in that direction.

If one examines the forecast mini-spike in the PNA, it appears that the mini-spike will occur about 24-36 hours too late. By the time it is taking place, the storm will be sufficiently far off the Southeast coast so as to be unable to make a sharp enough turn northward to bring meaningful snowfall to the NYC area. There remains some possibility that extreme eastern New England could wind up with several inches of snow, especially if an inverted trough develops.

Looking at past cases where storms brought 3” or more snow to Atlanta, just 5/19 (26%) brought 6” or more to New York City. None of the 11 storms that brought 6” or more snow to Wilmington, NC resulted in 6” or more snow in New York City. 

In fact, among that latter sample, five (45%) occurred during winters that saw < 15” snowfall in New York City:

February 23, 1901: 9.0” (NYC 1900-01 seasonal total: 9.1”)
February 24-25, 1942: 8.0” (NYC 1941-42 seasonal total: 11.3”)
February 9-10, 1973: 12.5” (NYC 1972-73 seasonal total: 2.8”)
March 1-3, 1980: 6.6” (NYC 1979-80 seasonal total: 12.8”)
December 22-24, 1989: 15.3” (NYC 1989-90 seasonal total: 13.4”)

The February 9-10, 1973 southern snowstorm occurred during an AO+/PNA- pattern. Such a pattern is forecast to be in place through the weekend.

Finally, based on the latest objective analogs, above normal temperatures should take hold near mid-month +/- a few days (> 75% probability) after a cold weekend and start to next week (with potential low temperatures falling into the teens in NYC and single digits outside the City and one or two days having highs < 30°). One of the cases is exceptionally warm. In general, there has been a strong and consistent signal for above normal temperatures during that timeframe, though some of the guidance had forecast faster moderation. However, the models often are a little fast with big pattern changes. 

All said, realities associated with the pattern and historic climatology of Southeast snowstorms suggest that the New York City area will miss out on a big snowfall this time around. It’s still premature to write off snowfall prospects for the winter as a whole. If one is looking for some encouragement, January 29-30, 1936 saw a snowstorm bring 8.0" to Atlanta and 6.5" to Wilmington. New York City wound up with 33.2" seasonal snowfall.
 

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48 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

 It’s still premature to write off snowfall prospects for the winter as a whole. If one is looking for some encouragement, January 29-30, 1936 saw a snowstorm bring 8.0" to Atlanta and 6.5" to Wilmington. New York City wound up with 33.2" seasonal snowfall.

 

Thanks for boost in confidence lol

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4 hours ago, Brian5671 said:

you'll be using some salt Friday-even a half inch with cold temps in the mid 20's will create the need-this stuff won't melt at the first ray of sun

Sublimation in hours. Come in guys, pull it together. Sure you can write off winter and early spring, but let's not wishcast and lose focus.

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28 minutes ago, Cfa said:

Dipped below freezing here this morning for the first time in nearly 15 days. Impressive run.

It was above 32.0°F from 8:25 AM on December 21st to 4:06 AM on January 5th. That's 14 days, 19 hours, and 51 minutes.

I know that we like to focus on monthly departures, but the last 15 days have averaged +8. These warm ups keep surpassing expectations.

The same Dec 21-Jan 4 period last winter was +13.

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3 hours ago, Cfa said:

Dipped below freezing here this morning for the first time in nearly 15 days. Impressive run.

It was above 32.0°F from 8:25 AM on December 21st to 4:06 AM on January 5th. That's 14 days, 19 hours, and 41 minutes.

The park was close, although it dipped to 31 between obs last weekend.  These types of streaks are happening regularly now.

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3 hours ago, bluewave said:

I know that we like to focus on monthly departures, but the last 15 days have averaged +8. These warm ups keep surpassing expectations.

The same Dec 21-Jan 4 period last winter was +13.

Way too easy to get past expectations, I don't see many months ahead below the 1981-2010 averages.

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37 minutes ago, WEATHERBUFF said:

Way too easy to get past expectations, I don't see many months ahead below the 1981-2010 averages.

We would need a strong blocking pattern to emerge later this winter to have a chance at a colder than normal February here.

Absent a significant high latitude blocking pattern , the default position has been above normal monthly temperatures.

 

The 3 ways to get a cold February here since 2013 have been...

 

Atlantic based -AO or -NAO block

F13.png

 

Polar block

14.png

Pacific block -EPO/+PNA

FEB15.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, bluewave said:

We would need a strong blocking pattern to emerge later this winter to have a chance at a colder than normal February here.

Absent a significant high latitude blocking pattern , the default position has been above normal monthly temperatures.

 

The 3 ways to get a cold February here since 2013 have been...

 

Atlantic based -AO or -NAO block

F13.png

 

Polar block

14.png

Pacific block -EPO/+PNA

FEB15.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes I agree that seems the only way otherwise it reverts back to bout 2 above if not more.

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20 hours ago, PB GFI said:

I am looking for another snow event by day 10 or 11.

I will post my thoughts tomorrow .

 

 

So I wanted to get past the upcoming 2 waves today so I could touch on this . Not always a buyer of 10 day OP runs  but HP in - EPO/WPO regime just likes to show up .

We are in Jan so we can snow even in a hostile pattern . Shorter wave lengths can cut through the mean ridge position when HP presses through the lakes . 

 

ecmwf_T850_us_11.png

 

ecmwf_z500_mslp_us_11.png

 

gem_mslp_pcpn_frzn_us_40.png

 

 

I am not sure how this gets handled over the next 5 to 7 days but I wanted to show that even when the heights look high the pattern could still produce ., 

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33 minutes ago, Snow88 said:

Models have a possible storm midmonth

Euro says what huge warmup?

did you even look at the Euro?

ecmwf_T850a_us_7.png

ecmwf_T850a_us_8.png

ecmwf_T850a_us_9.png

We have a 4 day cool down, followed by a 4 day warm up, followed by another cool down.  Its a back and forth pattern with any cutters spiking temps well above normal.  Keep in mind we are already at +9 for this month so far.

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1 minute ago, qg_omega said:

did you even look at the Euro?

ecmwf_T850a_us_7.png

ecmwf_T850a_us_8.png

ecmwf_T850a_us_9.png

We have a 4 day cool down, followed by a 4 day warm up, followed by another cool down.  Its a back and forth pattern with any cutters spiking temps well above normal.  Keep in mind we are already at +9 for this month so far.

It's a brief warmup with 1 cutter on the Euro

Snowstorm at 240

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13 minutes ago, bluewave said:

Probably the biggest OP GFS vs OP Euro day 10 model war of the season so far. They both agree on that very strong high to the north but have different overrunning zones.

 

GZ_PN_240_0000.gif

GZ_D5_PN_240_0000.gif

 

 

 

I hate looking at any OP past 5 days .

 

The EPO goes POS around the 13th and I always look for an extra 5 day lag in it`s ability to help eject HP through the UMW .

 

 I wanted to see if the Euro was onto something early . 

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44 minutes ago, PB GFI said:

 

I hate looking at any OP past 5 days .

 

The EPO goes POS around the 13th and I always look for an extra 5 day lag in it`s ability to help eject HP through the UMW .

 

 I wanted to see if the Euro was onto something early . 

Me too. Before we even get there it looks like another rapid temperature turnaround like we had near the solstice in December.

Both the GFS and Euro have lows below 20 on the 9th and highs over 50 on the 11th. Reminds me of the quick rebounds that

we saw last winter after the Arctic shots.

NEW YORK CITY-CENTRAL PARK
 KNYC   GFSX MOS GUIDANCE   1/05/2017  1200 UTC                       
 FHR  24  36| 48  60| 72  84| 96 108|120 132|144 156|168 180|192      
      FRI 06| SAT 07| SUN 08| MON 09| TUE 10| WED 11| THU 12|FRI CLIMO
 N/X  29  36| 21  27| 19  26| 17  32| 27  40| 39  53| 45  47| 38 25 38
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1 hour ago, bluewave said:

Me too. Before we even get there it looks like another rapid temperature turnaround like we had near the solstice in December.

Both the GFS and Euro have lows below 20 on the 9th and highs over 50 on the 11th. Reminds me of the quick rebounds that

we saw last winter after the Arctic shots.


NEW YORK CITY-CENTRAL PARK
 KNYC   GFSX MOS GUIDANCE   1/05/2017  1200 UTC                       
 FHR  24  36| 48  60| 72  84| 96 108|120 132|144 156|168 180|192      
      FRI 06| SAT 07| SUN 08| MON 09| TUE 10| WED 11| THU 12|FRI CLIMO
 N/X  29  36| 21  27| 19  26| 17  32| 27  40| 39  53| 45  47| 38 25 38

 

I will be interested to see if the snow cover can buy me 5 ish  degrees for a few days 

 

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