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Mid to Long Term Discussion 2017


buckeyefan1

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Just now, burrel2 said:

GFS at 144hr, (look at the pacific northwest/rockies).  Like I said, the ukmet says what storm.

gfs_z500_mslp_namer_25.png

GFS doing something funky cutting it up into a high. CMC doesn't pop the storm till after 144 so if the UK is similar to the CMC you wouldn't see a storm yet. Maybe by 12Z tomorrow. 

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2 minutes ago, Blue_Ridge_Escarpment said:

GFS doing something funky cutting it up into a high. CMC doesn't pop the storm till after 144 so if the UK is similar to the CMC you wouldn't see a storm yet. Maybe by 12Z tomorrow. 

Even the CMC has a slight trough starting to consolidate out west at 144hr... IMO, if extrapolating out, the ukmet,(if it has any storm at all in the 8/9 day timeframe), would be weak/suppressed, putting the CMC as the middle ground between the ukmet and the GFS. (thus meaning the GFS is most likely out to lunch). We'll see...

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5 minutes ago, burrel2 said:

GFS at 144hr, (look at the pacific northwest/rockies).  Like I said, the ukmet says what storm.

12z Euro and the new 00z CMC both have an initial weak west to east moving system, then later the deep diving wave that spawns the Bigger SE low. 00z UKMet looks kind of similar (looks weak at 144)...GFS has the stronger initial system that cuts 

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1 minute ago, griteater said:

12z Euro and the new 00z CMC both have an initial weak west to east moving system, then later the deep diving wave that spawns the Bigger SE low. 00z UKMet looks kind of similar (looks weak at 144)...GFS has the stronger initial system that cuts 

Yep, let's hope the GFS is being goofy here, because we aren't scoring in that set up, but plenty of room for some wintry precip based off the Euro/CMC/Ukmet look.

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3 minutes ago, griteater said:

The GFS gets too much respect IMO. With the Euro not what it used to be, you can throw all the op and ensemble runs in a bucket and call it even as far as I'm concerned. Heck, look at how well the Navgem did last storm 

Is it really a matter of opinion, though?  Don't they keep track of model verification scores?  What does the data say?

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7 minutes ago, shahroz98 said:

Is it just me, or does it feel like the chances of an actual winter storm happening are starting to lessen ?

Lots of storm signals but most big hits feature unattainable suppression due to unrealistic high pressures IMO 

i want to be wrong though 

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14 minutes ago, cbmclean said:

Is it really a matter of opinion, though?  Don't they keep track of model verification scores?  What does the data say?

Euro normally scores best, but the difference isn't huge and those scores don't necessarily tell the full story as it relates to our winter scenarios. The Euro is 0-5 in our model verification thread

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4 minutes ago, mackerel_sky said:

Can't believe we're losing this time period! :(. Wait, the 3-4th Jan storm will save us! So ready for the damn torch to start in mid Jan and carry us through April! Looking forward to my Bermuda lawn greening up in Feb again! The more things change, the more they stay the same! :(

Instead of tracking the weather I think I am just going to start tracking the emotions of the posters here.  It goes through troughs and ridges more severe than any we ever see.

The last few days has been a very positive time.  I sense that we have hit the peak and are now started downhill.

 

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1 minute ago, mackerel_sky said:

Serious question, how can the op and ensembles be that different? It's the 2nd or 3rd run in a row of them being polar opposites of each other!

At this range the op run is prone to wild swings that are noticeable since it’s just one model whereas the ensembles better depict the possible scenarios we could see, several members cut it like the op run while several look more like the cmc. 

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Night and day difference between Euro and GFS.  Euro with another nice run.  Big sfc high in ideal location in western Great Lakes Dec29 with weak wave digging into the southern plains.  Precip stays suppressed across the deep south.  More ridging working down into NE Canada this run, suppressing the flow over the eastern U.S.

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2 minutes ago, griteater said:

Night and day difference between Euro and GFS.  Euro with another nice run.  Big sfc high in ideal location in western Great Lakes Dec29 with weak wave digging into the southern plains.  Precip stays suppressed across the deep south.  More ridging working down into NE Canada this run, suppressing the flow over the eastern U.S.

I'll take this look 8 days out

ecmwf_ptype_se_216.png

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RAH's long range discussion. Nothing to really note, but the first part where they state that the NAM is the best model during CAD setups. We need to remember this for the future.

.LONG TERM /SATURDAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY/...
As of 250 AM Thursday...

Saturday: A difficult forecast largely dependent on the
erosion of a
hybrid cold air damming (
CAD) regime prior to the arrival of a cold
front on Saturday night. As noted in the Thursday discussion above,
a surface high pressure center over eastern Quebec establishes a
modest
CAD episode late Thursday and Friday. After weakening during
the day Friday, the
CAD becomes reestablished Friday night. But by
daybreak Saturday, just about all of
NWP guidance suggests a
southwesterly surface
flow should be ongoing and the CAD erosion
process, underway. Following the NAM is often the best course of
action in these setups given its superior
CAD
track record, which
would indicate a more stubborn wedge that is slower to erode,
especially across the eastern Piedmont where the
NAM expects a
little more precipitation to fall on Friday locking in the wedge.
Given this scenario, will undercut temperature guidance a few
degrees and increased forecast cloud cover. Forecast highs on
Saturday will range from the lower 60s in the Triad to the mid 60s
in the Triangle to around 70 in the Southeast. If the precipitation
doesn`t occur and the wedge doesn`t hold, highs could easily be 5 or
more degrees warmer than forecast. If the wedge does hold, highs
could be 5 degrees cooler than forecast.

Outside of a rogue shower in the elevated warm
advection ahead of
the
front, dry conditions are expected on Saturday morning and early
afternoon.
NWP guidance is in better agreement that the cold front
will be a little slower than previous runs and reach the higher
terrain of the southern Appalachians during the early afternoon on
Saturday and then move into central
NC Saturday evening and ease
southeast reaching the coastal region or Coastal Plain by daybreak
on Christmas eve. Guidance has also trended weaker with the forcing
for ascent, so expect diminished coverage and
QPF amounts than
previously expected. Will adjust
PoPs downward and delay the eastern
progression on Saturday afternoon with high chance
PoPs for Saturday
night. Lows should range in the mid 40s in the Triad to the mid 50s
across the southeast.

Christmas Eve: The cold
front stalls across the coastal region on
Sunday as a broad eastern North American upper-level
trough develops
and the upper
flow becomes aligned parallel to the front. The
placement of the cold
front will determine how much and where
precipitation will fall. The more progressive
GFS eases the front
eastward during the day leaving most of central NC dry and under a
veil of
high clouds while the EC is slower and further west,
generating area of rain as far west as U.S 1 Sunday and Sunday
evening until another short wave
trough provides a kick to push the
front offshore toward Monday morning. Will follow a compromise but
adjust all
PoPs downward on Sunday and focus precipitation chances
across the east. Highs will range in the lower 50s across the Triad
to the lower 60s across the Southeast.

Christmas Day through Wednesday: A much quieter period with below

normal temperatures expected. The upper trough axis centered across
the eastern Great Lakes and Mid Atlantic on Monday morning broadens
and shifts east during the period resulting in a northwest
flow
aloft on Monday that becomes more westerly toward mid week. The
result will be dry weather with slightly below
normal temperatures
on Monday that cool a bit more for Tuesday and Wednesday.

 

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