Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,586
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    LopezElliana
    Newest Member
    LopezElliana
    Joined

Mid to Long Term Discussion 2017


buckeyefan1

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 10.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply
3 minutes ago, AfewUniversesBelowNormal said:

Pretty big shift in models at the 30mb level... have the warming ending Dec 27th, to a strong PV. This is a late January-early February signal for +EPO/+NAO zonal flow.

Yep, another +AO/+NAO winter.  Just posted above the GEFS starting to get that look. After Mid-Jan it could get ugly...or pretty if you like the flowers blooming.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing that is universally agreed upon during the week following Christmas is some very cold air for december invading the conus. 1067hp is likely overdone. lol. But the cold is coming and the process that pushes it into the conus is in the med range. How long it stays and what the upper level config looks like down the line gets pretty muddy. The +ao/nao is doing us folks in the MA/SE no favors though. Nothing is showing a good or typical snow pattern after Christmas but the one key ingredient for a flawed, unusual, or "lucky" storm is cold air and that part should be in place for at least 3-4 days. Hopefully much longer. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

One thing that is universally agreed upon during the week following Christmas is some very cold air for december invading the conus. 1067hp is likely overdone. lol. But the cold is coming and the process that pushes it into the conus is in the med range. How long it stays and what the upper level config looks like down the line gets pretty muddy. The +ao/nao is doing us folks in the MA/SE no favors though. Nothing is showing a good or typical snow pattern after Christmas but the one key ingredient for a flawed, unusual, or "lucky" storm is cold air and that part should be in place for at least 3-4 days. Hopefully much longer. 

Dang, I didn't know we lost -AO!?? The only + we have is the + PNA, and that's looking sketchy!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, mackerel_sky said:

Dang, I didn't know we lost -AO!?? The only + we have is the + PNA, and that's looking sketchy!

The pattern "should" be epo driven coming up. I mentioned a few similar years in a previous post that were similar to the upcoming look (-epo,+ao, +nao). Jan/Feb 94,14, & 15 are decent analogs. However, those years were locked in to that type of pattern. Have no idea how long the upcoming one lasts and if it changes, where it goes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, WarmNose said:

Didn't we pretty much have everything going in our favor just 3 weeks ago? Those were the good ol' days. Cold Rain would do the pretty picture collage and everything...

We never had a -NAO, I don't think. It was being modeled by all the models and looking good, but it never came to fruition 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, WarmNose said:

Didn't we pretty much have everything going in our favor just 3 weeks ago? Those were the good ol' days. Cold Rain would do the pretty picture collage and everything...

It seems like the -NAO lasted about 30 seconds.  All cold shots have been pretty transient, which to my understanding is indicative of a lack of blocking.  Still it is better to oscillate between cold and normal than between warm to somewhat less warm. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, mackerel_sky said:

We never had a -NAO, I don't think. It was being modeled by all the models and looking good, but it never came to fruition 

Just checked and the NAO was mostly negative in the second half of November, but never by very much.  Crossed over to + territory almost exactly on Dec 1.

 

image.png.c88dbcc7483b64e7451c951c185e10bc.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate to give too much emphasis on the indices, mostly since we usually seem to be fighting them.  In the first half of December we have had a slightly negative AO, a slightly positive NAO, and a slight to moderately positive PNA.  This totes well with a normal to slightly chilly period, which is what we have had.  Going forward we have a +/+ AO/NAO combo with a mostly netral PNA, so nothing good.

I notice that the CPC lists the AO/NAO/PNA but does not mention the EPO.  It seems like a lot of you guys around here who know your stuff are very interested in that.  Is the EPO redundant with the PNA?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, cbmclean said:

I hate to give too much emphasis on the indices, mostly since we usually seem to be fighting them.  In the first half of December we have had a slightly negative AO, a slightly positive NAO, and a slight to moderately positive PNA.  This totes well with a normal to slightly chilly period, which is what we have had.  Going forward we have a +/+ AO/NAO combo with a mostly netral PNA, so nothing good.

I notice that the CPC lists the AO/NAO/PNA but does not mention the EPO.  It seems like a lot of you guys around here who know your stuff are very interested in that.  Is the EPO redundant with the PNA?

 

To my understanding, the EPO domain is generally north of the PNA.  It allows for the build up (or not) of cold air.  The PNA domain is farther south, but both can work together to get cold into the US.

The indexes really just measure how awesome or sucky the pattern is (which is, of course, a matter of perspective).  Coming up, we appear to be entering a period of substantial sucktitude for those in the southeast wanting cold and snow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Cold Rain said:

To my understanding, the EPO domain is generally north of the PNA.  It allows for the build up (or not) of cold air.  The PNA domain is farther south, but both can work together to get cold into the US.

The indexes really just measure how awesome or sucky the pattern is (which is, of course, a matter of perspective).  Coming up, we appear to be entering a period of substantial sucktitude for those in the southeast wanting cold and snow.

So we are getting 1983 like -EPO range or lower, but temps like 2012!? :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, mackerel_sky said:

So we are getting 1983 like -EPO range or lower, but temps like 2012!? :(

Yep.  I don’t think it’s possible to get into a cold and snowy pattern for the southeast anymore....not without a strongly negative west NAO.  Unfortunately, that index goes positive as soon as winter begins and remains that way at least until winter is over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Cold Rain said:

Yep.  I don’t think it’s possible to get into a cold and snowy pattern for the southeast anymore....not without a strongly negative west NAO.  Unfortunately, that index goes positive as soon as winter begins and remains that way at least until winter is over.

I wonder if this is AGW related or just annoying natural variation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, FallsLake said:

I do. Folks tend to dismiss it, especially past 48 hours. I forgot what met stated one time that it has really improved and can be used through all its hours. 

I look at Nam all the time.  Every time I look at gfs/euro I look at nam too. Each model has their differences. Got too look at all models.  If not a bias it becomes.  Can't ask about the cold that was predicted.  But the future is now.  Where that death ridge ?!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...