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January Medium/Long Range Discussion


WinterWxLuvr

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12 minutes ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

Not sure what the difference is that the models are seeing. I know these aren't the favored models but the NAVGEM is a rainer it appears with the slp to WV then redevelops off VA Capes....the JMA is to W NC then redevelops near Hatteras and heads NNE/NE. CMC wasnt horrible with a light event to get many on the board.
 

Hard to tell on TT, but the NAV looks like a start as snow to frozen.  Heights support snow and then looks to be a little CAD signature.  The JMA looks like a decent little snow.

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1 hour ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

The past 24 hours boost your faith in the gfs and euro?

If the changes they picked up on are accurate from 7 days out I don't see why this would be a model failure. When I first really got into this in the 90s anything past 72 hours was total WAG. Now we analyze day 8 storms. If they picked up on a change a week out that's pretty good. Plus we don't sample every inch of the atmosphere so the models have to initialize on a lot of assumptions and estimations. Garbage in garbage out. I'm not in the camp that trashes the models. I think it's an amazing achievement they are as good as they are. Plus I don't feel the need to have them 100% accurate. Leave some mystery. The next time a snow pops up 3 days out suddenly we won't hear complaints about model inaccuracy 

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Just now, psuhoffman said:

If the changes they picked up on are accurate from 7 days out I don't see why this would be a model failure. When I first really got into this in the 90s anything past 72 hours was total WAG. Now we analyze day 8 storms. If they picked up on a change a week out that's pretty good. Plus we don't sample every inch of the atmosphere so the models have to initialize on a lot of assumptions and estimations. Garbage in garbage out. I'm not in the camp that trashes the models. I think it's an amazing achievement they are as good as they are. Plus I don't feel the need to have them 100% accurate. Leave some mystery. The next time a snow pops up 3 days out suddenly we won't hear complaints about model inaccuracy 

I'm not complaining about model inaccuracy, but when they jump completely off the planet in one run you have to wonder about what's going on.  Now the gfs with some pretty substantial h5 changes compared to 12z and more in line with the euro which was quite a bit different than its 0z run.

Its fine if you think we've seen the final nail, but I'm in the camp of we aren't any closer to knowing what might happen today than we were yesterday at this time.

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3 minutes ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

I'm not complaining about model inaccuracy, but when they jump completely off the planet in one run you have to wonder about what's going on.  Now the gfs with some pretty substantial h5 changes compared to 12z and more in line with the euro which was quite a bit different than its 0z run.

Its fine if you think we've seen the final nail, but I'm in the camp of we aren't any closer to knowing what might happen today than we were yesterday at this time.

Another time completely but there have been some analogues tossed around irt 2000. And this wave coming thru Thursday-Friday is eerily reminiscent of late January 2000 imho. There was a similar setup this range with a few waves traversing the nation embedded in a fast flow. As we got shorter lead time, there were more signals that the wrong wave was being keyed in on by most models. 36 hours prior it became clearer that a storm was going to bomb off the SC coast. Again, different setup here but similar in that hits were shown a week prior, all models (I think at that time it was the MRF, NGP, and Euro) lost the storm to suppression 5-6 days out but still had some unsettled weather showing up, then when AVN and ETA got into range it was game on. Similar area (off SC on Jan 5) as 2000 also. Not calling for a repeat AT ALL....I just saw analogues to that year and now see a slp in the same spot and the GFS trying to inch closer to the coast. Meh, thinking too much...wont happen but fun to remember those past surprises.

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12 minutes ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

I'm not complaining about model inaccuracy, but when they jump completely off the planet in one run you have to wonder about what's going on.  Now the gfs with some pretty substantial h5 changes compared to 12z and more in line with the euro which was quite a bit different than its 0z run.

Its fine if you think we've seen the final nail, but I'm in the camp of we aren't any closer to knowing what might happen today than we were yesterday at this time.

I misread your post, my bad. I don't think it's a done deal but our chances are lower today then yesterday. The models will continue to bounce around through the permutations of a difficult pattern but at least with them we have a general idea of what things will look like. Without them we wouldn't (except for Tenman who obviously doesn't need them). 

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7 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

I misread your post, my bad. I don't think it's a done deal but our chances are lower today then yesterday. The models will continue to bounce around through the permutations of a difficult pattern but at least with them we have a general idea of what things will look like. Without them we wouldn't (except for Tenman who obviously doesn't need them). 

Sure, I'm with you. The models are incredible.  Right now, for whatever reason, the upper level pattern is really jumpy past about 4 days.  I don't have any hopes that we return to the solution of yesterday's Euro but we might return to the notion of the Friday storm.  If anyone remembers, originally the storm was modeled to come in on Friday but kept getting pushed out in time.  The reason I remember is that I have to travel on Sat and was glad to see the brunt would come on Friday.

I think over the next couple of days we will see the model mayhem calm down.

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If we want to hang on something this gfs run was close to popping something good. There is a disconnect at H5 and surface on the day 8 storm. Notice the lower pressures split between the low off the mid Atlantic and the low off the southeast coast. The better h5 support would be for the one east if us. If the system is more consolidated at that location with a pretty good track on the vort there is room for that to improve. IMG_0080.PNG

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