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January Medium/Long Range Discussion


WinterWxLuvr

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Northern stream shortwave digs a lot more in this run and partially phases with the southern stream. This is a double bad whammy for us as it pulls the storm north and west while also setting up difluence to our north which weakens the cold high pressure. We want confluence to the north to reinforce the high.

Could it be right? Sure, it somewhat follows the seasonal trend. But still 7 or more days out and this solution doesn't have much support yet.

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6 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

Northern stream shortwave digs a lot more in this run and partially phases with the southern stream. This is a double bad whammy for us as it pulls the storm north and west while also setting up difluence to our north which weakens the cold high pressure. We want confluence to the north to reinforce the high.

Could it be right? Sure, it somewhat follows the seasonal trend. But still 7 or more days out and this solution doesn't have much support yet.

I agree with Mitch that the adjustment towards the seasonal trend is most likely an early warning sign. We're getting into prime time for ensembles to really give us insight. We're still a few days away from fully understanding which shortwave will be the main player and how it will evolve though. All options are still on the table but the same thing happened with our Dec threat as time closed so the warm fuzzies I had yesterday are getting mixed with cold rainies. 

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4 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

I agree with Mitch that the adjustment towards the seasonal trend is most likely an early warning sign. We're getting into prime time for ensembles to really give us insight. We're still a few days away from fully understanding which shortwave will be the main player and how it will evolve though. All options are still on the table but the same thing happened with our Dec threat as time closed so the warm fuzzies I had yesterday are getting mixed with cold rainies. 

Yup. I've been banging the drum that we should be more worried about this type of solution vs. some super suppressed slider.

Lets see where the GEFS stand.

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3 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

I agree with Mitch that the adjustment towards the seasonal trend is most likely an early warning sign. We're getting into prime time for ensembles to really give us insight. We're still a few days away from fully understanding which shortwave will be the main player and how it will evolve though. All options are still on the table but the same thing happened with our Dec threat as time closed so the warm fuzzies I had yesterday are getting mixed with cold rainies. 

And this one doesn't have a massive arctic dump 36 hours in front of it if this run is to be believed. The seasonal trend with models has been to overdo these cold pushes.  They model as deep central us pushes that move east but end up being glancing blows that rebound quickly along the Miss river.

For me one positive is that the ops are struggling mightily the past 36 hours or so in trying to pin this down and that the ens have been pretty steady with this storm and most have been south.  I'm not telling anybody anything they don't know but we aren't going to know anything until Sun/Mon

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CMC was actually very close to being something good. Just needed that 1025 Hp a little stronger



Ops are bouncing all over. Psuhoffman said yesterday, and I agree, very minor and subtle changes irt shortwaves embedded in the flow and timing will create huge differences at the surface. CMC went from a nice look 12z yesterday to a sheared out suppressed wave at 0z back to a coastal low now at 12z. Ensembles the way to go for now.

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28 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

I agree with Mitch that the adjustment towards the seasonal trend is most likely an early warning sign. We're getting into prime time for ensembles to really give us insight. We're still a few days away from fully understanding which shortwave will be the main player and how it will evolve though. All options are still on the table but the same thing happened with our Dec threat as time closed so the warm fuzzies I had yesterday are getting mixed with cold rainies. 

i agree and yesterday was more concerned about the track being a tad too far north.  Today's ensemble mean still suggest quite a few southern track members so it's not over.  I think the key is how strong the shortwave digging southward in the northern stream gets and how fast it moves east.  Today's operational GFS and GGEM had it strong enough to back the flow which put a damper on how far south the cold air could get plus they had a high off the east coast and a low inland which is never a good combo.  Because of how much the models have waffled and how much trouble they often have handling those pesky northern stream shortwaves, nothing is off the table though I think the suppressed too much for precipitation idea is not very likely.

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4 minutes ago, osfan24 said:

Oh good, we are back to looking at almost eye candy at 312 hours. Story of this winter thus far.

I know it is chasing a unicorn at that range. But the GFS has been advertising a decent pattern for a storm during that period for a couple of days. NAO breaking down and a pseudo 50/50 in place.  It's not a horrid look:

gfs_polar_300_500_vort_ht.gif

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13 minutes ago, usedtobe said:

i agree and yesterday was more concerned about the track being a tad too far north.  Today's ensemble mean still suggest quite a few southern track members so it's not over.  I think the key is how strong the shortwave digging southward in the northern stream gets and how fast it moves east.  Today's operational GFS and GGEM had it strong enough to back the flow which put a damper on how far south the cold air could get plus they had a high off the east coast and a low inland which is never a good combo.  Because of how much the models have waffled and how much trouble they often have handling those pesky northern stream shortwaves, nothing is off the table though I think the suppressed too much for precipitation idea is not very likely.

Well, the 12z gefs was definitely a step back from 0z but not my a big margin or anything. A week out leaves a ton of room for significant shifts in the good or bad direction so as usual...we wait...and wait. 

I never thought this had big potential either way. The 12z euro yesterday (imo) was max potential. Setups like this when they work are much more likely to be in the 2-4/3-6 range. Which would be fine of course. 

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Just now, Bob Chill said:

Well, the 12z gefs was definitely a step back from 0z but not my a big margin or anything. A week out leaves a ton of room for significant shifts in the good or bad direction so as usual...we wait...and wait. 

I never thought this had big potential either way. The 12z euro yesterday (imo) was max potential. Setups like this when they work are much more likely to be in the 2-4/3-6 range. Which would be fine of course. 

If you remember the 00z euro was suppressed so a compromise would be good.

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