NNE Winter Thread

[Lava Rock]

Not much.  Around an inch or so for Central VT.

Rain here. Not sure how much
Picked up 1.5" snow today

[dendrite]

Had 2.4" of snow from 0.21" of liquid today. That brings the depth back up to 11".

 

Down to 24F after a high of 31F. According to Mesowest, I am currently tied for the coldest in the state outside of MWN.

[powderfreak]

18 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

You can see the set up in the middle of the image. It is roped off from the public, then has a screen around the can. You can see the screen but not the can here.

I still think there is a fair bit of estimation that goes on. 

Ahh nice.  Yeah that's similar to the MMNV1 COOP set-up on the ridge.  Captures some snowfalls ok and others horribly.  All depends on wind and moisture content of the snow...generally the wetter snows get sampled better on Mansfield in my experience. 

[OceanStWx]

1 minute ago, powderfreak said:

Ahh nice.  Yeah that's similar to the MMNV1 COOP set-up on the ridge.  Captures some snowfalls ok and others horribly.  All depends on wind and moisture content of the snow...generally the wetter snows get sampled better on Mansfield in my experience. 

I would imagine it's no different on MWN. 

I mean most often they are ripping 100 mph up there post storm/front, so the big synoptic stuff is probably handled okay. 

[eekuasepinniW]

I can't see any lights at all down by the beach and thought there must be a power outage.  There is a super dense but shallow layer of fog pooled between the hills.

[ono]

the thing that really screams "WTF?" about Jay Peak is that they're the only ski resort/ski area in North America that has more than 400' vertical and no webcam.  It's like their marketing department is run by the mantra "it's snowing, trust our word..."  That

Webcams have been a standard feature of every resort, and smaller ski areas as well, for a decade or more now.  Even far southern ski areas have webcams now.

[klw]

10 hours ago, ono said:

the thing that really screams "WTF?" about Jay Peak is that they're the only ski resort/ski area in North America that has more than 400' vertical and no webcam.  It's like their marketing department is run by the mantra "it's snowing, trust our word..."  

 

Oddly enough their CEOs recruited investors with the same mantra.

 

 

Anyway I got home and found 2.1 inches new from today.

 

I made it about 15 yards up the driveway.  Tried twice and that was that.  I stopped once I hit powder covered ice and that was that.

[J.Spin]

Event totals: 1.7” Snow/0.15” L.E.

 

We headed up to Bolton for some evening ski runs, so I can pass along some mountain observations and a conditions report.  The temperature at Village elevation (~2,100’) was right around freezing, and the cloud deck fluctuated between there and Mid Mountain (~2,500’).  There was light snow falling the entire evening, and although we never went higher than Mid Mountain, there was no wind to speak of.  So overall, it was an incredibly nice evening to be out skiing under the lights.  I measured 3” of snow in the Village parking lot, and generally found 3-4” on the hill, which jives perfectly with the 3-4” that I see this evening in the Bolton Valley snow report.  My liquid analyses down here at the house (500’) revealed a very mid-weight 10% H2O snow, and while we may have had a touch of compaction due to being slightly above the freezing mark at our elevation, I’d say that 10% density is fairly consistent with what the mountain received.  So the new snow has got a bit of girth to it and can float you pretty well on low- to moderate-angle terrain as long as there’s a smooth subsurface.  There was plenty of powder available this evening off to the sides of the main runs and on the easily accessible side trails, and combined with the weather, the overall ski conditions were so good that we ended up staying a lot longer than I’d thought we would.  There obviously hasn’t been enough liquid added atop the snowpack to keep folks from touching down on steep terrain yet, but lower-angle to moderate terrain is skiing beautifully.  I suspect the groomed terrain could have been pretty loud before this new snow, but turns were very silent and peaceful tonight.  And, then there’s the aesthetic quality of all the new snow.  Folks coming up for the holiday weekend should be pretty psyched, especially if Mother Nature tops this current snow off with a bit more from the system potentially affecting the area on Saturday.

 

When we arrived back down at the house this evening I found an additional 0.2” of snow on the boards with light snow/flurries in the air.

 

Details from the 8:00 P.M. Waterbury observations:

 

New Snow: 0.2 inches

New Liquid: 0.02 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 10.0

Snow Density: 10.0% H2O

Temperature: 33.1 F

Sky: Flurries

Snow at the stake: 6.0 inches

[Hitman]

14 hours ago, powderfreak said:

lol wtf is with the dog?

I'm very jealous of the Bush technology they have with that cam at 4,000ft...because you could do it perfectly with some sort of elevating board that you can adjust upward as the snowpack rises.  I think they should embrace it...say, "hey it drifts sometimes or fills in a little bit, its 4000ft, visit often to watch it snow.  If we think its drifted in, we modify the snowfall numbers or measure at a slightly lower less windy elevation." 

Its a fascinating tool because I know a lot of people that find themselves looking at it just to see if its actually snowing or not.  Embrace it for what it is and run with it. 

It's a statuette of a dog.  

Whitewater is a funky place.  Kind of like the mrg of the west.  And they get a **** ton of snow.  Light dry snow.  Average over 40'/season.  Fairly inexpensive especially with the favorable exchange rate now.  Off the beaten path.

[powderfreak]

5 minutes ago, Hitman said:

It's a statuette of a dog.  

Whitewater is a funky place.  Kind of like the mrg of the west.  And they get a **** ton of snow.  Light dry snow.  Average over 40'/season.  Fairly inexpensive especially with the favorable exchange rate now.  Off the beaten path.

British Columbia is number 1 on my list...at least interior BC.  I've done the Whistler thing (which is the real deal, that place is massive) but always wanted to do a Red-Fernie-Whitewater type trip.

You are going catskiing out there right?  Very jealous...you gotta share some pics haha.

[Hitman]

35 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

British Columbia is number 1 on my list...at least interior BC.  I've done the Whistler thing (which is the real deal, that place is massive) but always wanted to do a Red-Fernie-Whitewater type trip.

You are going catskiing out there right?  Very jealous...you gotta share some pics haha.

3 days on the cat, 2 at whitewater and 1 at red depending on conditions.  Presidents week.  We were thinking of doing fernie or revelstoke but it's too much driving.  We can hit red on our last day on our way back to Spokane to fly home.  Whereas the others are hours out of the way. 

ive never done whistler but would love to.  Funny thing is the tenure of the cat ski operation is bigger than whistler but there are only 24 people, 2 cats skiing it.  Even with the cat skiing, this is less expensive.  Only issue are the flights to Spokane which are sparse and no direct, and then 3 hour drive to Nelson, but that doesn't bother me.  

I am missing vt.  Psyched to go out west and praying the snow gods shine upon us, but I miss the routine.  This is the first time in a decade we havent been in vt for xmas New Years.  

[ono]

2 hours ago, Hitman said:

It's a statuette of a dog.  

Whitewater is a funky place.  Kind of like the mrg of the west.  And they get a **** ton of snow.  Light dry snow.  Average over 40'/season.  Fairly inexpensive especially with the favorable exchange rate now.  Off the beaten path.

worked with a guy from Kelowna- whitewater was/is is home hill. The place sounds like heaven- tons of snow, and no people. The major drawback to (or best part of) interior BC is accessibility. Did the drive from Calgary to Vancouver once- it's just so rugged with a half dozen or so major north-south trending mountain chains.  Whistler is a different story/location, and why so few resorts there see much crowds.  

on a tangent, access is, supposedly, one of the primary reasons Revelstoke hasn't made a ton of forward progress with the huge buildout into the planned largest resort in North America- town sits at ~1500' in a north-south river valley a few miles wide, while surrounded by 7500-9500' mountains on all sides. The low valley and extreme relief make for foggy and windy conditions so flying into the place is apparently very challenging and delayed often- perhaps worse than Telluride or Aspen- more snow, more vertical? Driving to the place from Calgary passes through Banff, and over the famed Rogers Pass- so all bets are off there.  

It seems like if you really want to do BC, flying into spokane and getting a good rental with snow tires (on the Canadian side) would  be the way to go- but it would be hard not to want to go for a few weeks, getting around and all to several resorts.  Probably the most epic expanse of ski resorts on Earth in terms of terrain/snow/no crowds. Nevermind the many backcountry lodges in BC catering to all types- rustic to luxury, heli-skiing to touring.

Dreamin' now.

[powderfreak]

57 minutes ago, Hitman said:

3 days on the cat, 2 at whitewater and 1 at red depending on conditions.  Presidents week.  We were thinking of doing fernie or revelstoke but it's too much driving.  We can hit red on our last day on our way back to Spokane to fly home.  Whereas the others are hours out of the way. 

ive never done whistler but would love to.  Funny thing is the tenure of the cat ski operation is bigger than whistler but there are only 24 people, 2 cats skiing it.  Even with the cat skiing, this is less expensive.  Only issue are the flights to Spokane which are sparse and no direct, and then 3 hour drive to Nelson, but that doesn't bother me.  

I am missing vt.  Psyched to go out west and praying the snow gods shine upon us, but I miss the routine.  This is the first time in a decade we havent been in vt for xmas New Years.  

Why aren't you up here this year?  Didn't you come up most weekends?  Sell your place?

Bummer I always liked your ground truth from the Mad River Valley.  Especially when weak clipper systems deliver 3-11" of snowfall, lol.

 

[powderfreak]

Looks like this will be final ski area snowfall totals for this latest clipper:

Jay Peak... 6"

Smuggs... 4"

Stowe... 4"

Bolton... 4"

Mad River Glen... 4"

Sugarbush... 11" (5" at 3,000ft)

Killington... 3.5"

[Hitman]

51 minutes ago, ono said:

worked with a guy from Kelowna- whitewater was/is is home hill. The place sounds like heaven- tons of snow, and no people. The major drawback to (or best part of) interior BC is accessibility. Did the drive from Calgary to Vancouver once- it's just so rugged with a half dozen or so major north-south trending mountain chains.  Whistler is a different story/location, and why so few resorts there see much crowds.  

on a tangent, access is, supposedly, one of the primary reasons Revelstoke hasn't made a ton of forward progress with the huge buildout into the planned largest resort in North America- town sits at ~1500' in a north-south river valley a few miles wide, while surrounded by 7500-9500' mountains on all sides. The low valley and extreme relief make for foggy and windy conditions so flying into the place is apparently very challenging and delayed often- perhaps worse than Telluride or Aspen- more snow, more vertical? Driving to the place from Calgary passes through Banff, and over the famed Rogers Pass- so all bets are off there.  

It seems like if you really want to do BC, flying into spokane and getting a good rental with snow tires (on the Canadian side) would  be the way to go- but it would be hard not to want to go for a few weeks, getting around and all to several resorts.  Probably the most epic expanse of ski resorts on Earth in terms of terrain/snow/no crowds. Nevermind the many backcountry lodges in BC catering to all types- rustic to luxury, heli-skiing to touring.

Dreamin' now.

the drive from spokane to nelson isnt bad.  3 hours including the border crossing but its easy without any mountain passes.  just north-south.  revelstoke and kicking horse are another 4 hours north with a ferry ride (which would be cool but still), so realistically you have to fly in to calgary and make the drive through the mountains which would also be cool, but treacherous in the winter.

I haven't been to revelstoke but what I've heard is that while its awesome, the vertical drop is exagerated.  Kind of like killington where they have a lift down low that doesnt really add any skiing but increases the vertical.

[Hitman]

56 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Why aren't you up here this year?  Didn't you come up most weekends?  Sell your place?

Bummer I always liked your ground truth from the Mad River Valley.  Especially when weak clipper systems deliver 3-11" of snowfall, lol.

 

We had been renting a place every winter, but my son is off at college and my daughter is a junior in HS and has a ton of stuff with SATs and what not.  Plus last winter was a kick in the gut every weekend, and most significantly, I had a significant fee which I should have gotten in august but is tied up and I still dont have so I didnt want to spend the money.  It's killing me.  I had to ski Hunter last weekend.  They have garbage cans under the six pack so people can throw their beer bottles from the lift.  disgusting.

The bright side is my kids have never skied out west and we are going to snowbird on thursday.

[ono]

15 minutes ago, Hitman said:

the drive from spokane to nelson isnt bad.  3 hours including the border crossing but its easy without any mountain passes.  just north-south.  revelstoke and kicking horse are another 4 hours north with a ferry ride (which would be cool but still), so realistically you have to fly in to calgary and make the drive through the mountains which would also be cool, but treacherous in the winter.

I haven't been to revelstoke but what I've heard is that while its awesome, the vertical drop is exagerated.  Kind of like killington where they have a lift down low that doesnt really add any skiing but increases the vertical.

Heard similar- and that seems typical of those big vertical resorts out west- the bottom half of the mountain is less used/more variable snow conditions. Most of the time skiing is the top 1/2 or so, depending on snow/terrain. Some places are relatively flat for the bottom half of the mountain, while places like Jackson hole have a sustained pitch down to the bottom- though the snow quality varies considerably by elevation/exposure when it's not snowing- the Hobacks are a prime example of this. Looking at a trail map, and never having skied there, it would be easy to imagine a 3000' vertical expansive powder face. The reality it's more often sun-crusted, broken up and variable February onward- can often turn into a battle to get down. 

Getting just a basic lay of the land- which lifts locals primarily ski off of- helps a lot.

[wxeyeNH]

Slow motion train wreck in progress.  Our bushes are about to be taken out.  I have been watching the ice and snow layer slowly slide off the metal roof over the past day.  Like a slow moving glacier its heading for the bushes.  If I take a snow rake to it the thing is going to crash anyway.  Seems to have a solid ice base holding it.  Today's upper 30's should bring it down.  Time for new bushes!

Also nice sunset over Newfound Lake yesterday.  Lower 1/3 is iced over  (not in the picture).  Main part of lake is still open.

[Hitman]

2 hours ago, ono said:

worked with a guy from Kelowna- whitewater was/is is home hill. The place sounds like heaven- tons of snow, and no people. The major drawback to (or best part of) interior BC is accessibility. Did the drive from Calgary to Vancouver once- it's just so rugged with a half dozen or so major north-south trending mountain chains.  Whistler is a different story/location, and why so few resorts there see much crowds.  

on a tangent, access is, supposedly, one of the primary reasons Revelstoke hasn't made a ton of forward progress with the huge buildout into the planned largest resort in North America- town sits at ~1500' in a north-south river valley a few miles wide, while surrounded by 7500-9500' mountains on all sides. The low valley and extreme relief make for foggy and windy conditions so flying into the place is apparently very challenging and delayed often- perhaps worse than Telluride or Aspen- more snow, more vertical? Driving to the place from Calgary passes through Banff, and over the famed Rogers Pass- so all bets are off there.  

It seems like if you really want to do BC, flying into spokane and getting a good rental with snow tires (on the Canadian side) would  be the way to go- but it would be hard not to want to go for a few weeks, getting around and all to several resorts.  Probably the most epic expanse of ski resorts on Earth in terms of terrain/snow/no crowds. Nevermind the many backcountry lodges in BC catering to all types- rustic to luxury, heli-skiing to touring.

Dreamin' now.

Dream this.

http://backcountryskiingcanada.com/Whitewater

[ono]

1 hour ago, Hitman said:

Dream this.

http://backcountryskiingcanada.com/Whitewater

wow. that does look very awesome.  somewhat similar to the old Berthoud Pass ski area- minimalist lifts get ya up high, then traverse/hike/traverse out and drop in, then traverse back to the road or whatever.  didn't realize whitewater had such a setup- throw in 470" annual snowfall, you'll  have a blast!

[alex]

Off topic but related - greetings from the Idaho Panhandle! Went skiing in Silver Mountain yesterday, a local place. Gorgeous scenery! Lots of snow but also lots of wind the previous day, so not much left on trees. Spending Xmas here, then off to Park City on Monday, then Yellowstone on Friday. They're currently under a WSW, should be some great skiing! Yesterday was day 14 this season, not bad for December, certainly a lot more than I did last year to date. HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL!

 

 

 

 

[WthrJunkyME]

 

 

That's beautiful!  Merry Christmas!

 

 

[powderfreak]

2pm showing 1.5" today at 3,000ft and 0.5" at 1,500ft...base area definitely was hurt by marginal temperatures hindering accumulation.  Up high where it was safely in the 20s was able to accumulate better.  Probably estimating 10:1 ratios up there and even like 6:1 down at the base.

We had a brief break but its snowing pretty hard right now...visibility under a mile at least with better flakes at the base area.

Can see the upslope resurgence and a nice little pocket of echoes right over the ski resort where RT 108 almost touches the Lamoille/Chittenden County lines.

 

[moneypitmike]

On 12/23/2016 at 2:01 PM, alex said:

Off topic but related - greetings from the Idaho Panhandle! Went skiing in Silver Mountain yesterday, a local place. Gorgeous scenery! Lots of snow but also lots of wind the previous day, so not much left on trees. Spending Xmas here, then off to Park City on Monday, then Yellowstone on Friday. They're currently under a WSW, should be some great skiing! Yesterday was day 14 this season, not bad for December, certainly a lot more than I did last year to date. HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL!

 

 

 

 

Great pictures!

[Angus]

We did the fly in/out of Calgary and in counter-clockwise order drive/ski Sunshine Village (1 days), Kicking Horse (3), Revelstoke (1) and Fernie (2) last year with my son for his Spring break. Awesome. At Revelstoke, you don't even bother skiing the bottom third of mountain unless the weather is cooperating. Friend happened to be there a week apart doing cat skiing and said he had an absolute blast. As you drive the loop, you pass quite a few cat and heli operations. Each area is very different. Red and Whitewater are definitely on my list. Folks spoke highly of Castle too. Mountains are all huge with abundant steeps.

[powderfreak]

Nice little addition of 0.2" QPF to resurface the slopes.

Snow depth up 3" today to 41".

Daily Hydrometeorological Data
National Weather Service Burlington VT
514 PM EST SAT DEC 24 2016

Station            Precip   Temperature   Present         Snow
                   24 Hrs   Max Min Cur   Weather     New Total SWE
...Vermont...
Mount Mansfield     0.22    27  19  24                1.6  41

[qg_omega]

Looks like near zero Sunday night and rain a few hours later.

[Lava Rock]

Looks like near zero Sunday night and rain a few hours later.

Hate that when it happens

[backedgeapproaching]

2015 xmas day-- we mow

2016--we snow....not a ton, but at least white.

Last Dec was just so absurd.

[ono]

Headed over to Eastern VT last night- the snowpack from Barre all the way over to Fairlee in the CT River valley was quite impressive. Even in the CT river valley, 1' or so on the ground.  much more than western VT overall (snow preservation, perhaps, with CAD?). The VAST trails looked to be full-on good to go Barre-eastward- by elevation, Eastern VT appears in much better shape in that regard from roadside viewing.

 

Did a brief tour today in the backcountry (just to scope some stuff out- didn't plan on skiing so much as hopping/sidestepping down).  North of Mansfield, on the west side of the spine: 3-12" of variably crusty/windblown at ~1600'. Nothing like PF reported at Stowe (though this spot seems to be a locally snow shadowed area down low year over year, at least in the few past years). At 2000', the snowpack was around 14-18"+ (W/WSW facing, however) with much less of a robust crust.  Around 2500' the snowpack really picked up into the ~20-24"  range (W-WNW facing)- throwing numbers around (as it varied quite a bit, at 3000' or so, depths were variable, but in the 20-30" range (NW facing, though varied, again). Was expecting more of a crust/bullet proof surface, but it was more breakable and easily post-holed.  Snow bridges up top are coming in, down below 2000'- it's quite far from being ready- the transition from the danger zone of early season snow conditions to close to more healthy midwinter-like snowpack occurred from 2000-2500' and is pronounced here. From past experience, this area seems to suffer from a bit of an orographic shadow down below 2k, or that may just be the pattern over the past few years of observations.

 

The ski down was extreme caution. only a few sets of linked turns in spots that seemed ok after scoping them out. it was crap skiing- every turn is a slow-motion worry about what could happen- mostly sidestepping and hop turns or sideslipping. Not skiing so much as carefully manipulating the skis downhill in an effort to get the hell out while not do something that could ruin your body/ski season.  At the very bottom (below 1800' or so), I just carried the skis. What would usually take no more than 20 minutes or so to descend (1500' vertical or so) demanded an hour of "work" to get to the car (sun was setting, and I was alone- so even more cautious). Took a ride over to the Smugger's side of the notch- and the snowpack was definitely more consistent (12"+) at 1600' than similar elevations a few miles away. Seems like Mansfield/the Notch area has benefitted more so than even the nearby spine with solid 3000'+ ridge lines above, though didn't have a great deal of observations here to make any conclusive comparison.  

Seems like a 12-18" synoptic event is really required to get the backcountry going- the bottom half of the mountains are still in need. The runouts are junk, still.  Nice day being in the mountains, for sure. 

Mid elevation ~2400'. looks OK, but really needs more snow at this aspect. Western exposure and wind likely didn't do much help, with localized low level warming doing a job, perhaps. This whole area just seemed hit down low relative to similar elevation to Stowe/Smuggs ski areas from observations floating around. There's probably a reason 60-70 years ago, folks decided to build ski lifts in certain spots- the local nature of snowpack here is crazy.  Would venture a guess that stuff on the eastern side of the spine (under a half mile away) with a more NE exposure is probably a bit better off- just going by feel and reports.  This line has been cut, and has many exposed, small stumps 6-12" off the ground, especially on rollovers- it seems to be poorly situated for both snow retention and aspect, overall, as the elevation drops. The gut says there is a better runout line to the north, with better aspect and retention potential- noticed a line coming in from that direction on the way down- next time!

Doesn't look that open, but it's a pretty nice open area up near the spine of the greens perhaps ~3100' accoding to topo (like using maps, don't have a gps, though will get one soon enough-).  Throw in a decent round of snow and it's game on here.  This is where one could actually ski today, though being solo and late, played the ultra conservative card in making turns- just seeing a new place and how the snow skied underfoot. This area has a fair bit of open terrain, while to be honest, was  hoping to see more open expanses. Didn't make it to the goal today, which seems to still hold promise after this recon tour. Vegetation is such a prime factor.  Next time. 

 

Stoked for good skiing, but it seems about average (average is great, in relative terms!)  for this time of year right now.  Another week or two, hopefully we can go to work on the mountains.