Winter Banter & General Discussion/Observations

[#NoPoles]

2 hours ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

Thankfully we each only had the 2-3 day version.  Wife and child were throwin', I was goin'.  Worst part for me was about 24 hours of extreme nausea and chills.  

These viruses scare me because my parents are old and my mom isn't very mobile...seniors, children, and those that aren't 100% healthy always get hit so hard.

Same with the Flu and pneumonia

[OceanStWx]

5 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

Getting back to the discussion about the 80s since it was off topic....if you think we are all embellishing it, think again. How many years in a row did Worcester go without a double digit storm? At least 4, Will??  It was to the point where my family kept telling me how the winters when they were a kid were so snowy. It got me angry and depressed. A 3-6" got me bouncing off the ceiling. Think about that. We scoff at those nowadays. So remember....treasure the good storms and the good years because when it's bad.....it can be real bad.

I can just picture you at recess beating up other kids because you had no snow days. 

[NECT]

4 hours ago, tamarack said:

I'm guessing it was Feb. '81.  That was Farmington's least snowy winter of 123 on record (1" less than the winter before, so could've been 79-80), and Feb temps ran 12-15F AN.  Lot's of bare ground on Aroostook potato fields in late Feb when snow should be at/near its deepest, and the ice ran on the St. John and Allagash.

Could be. It was definitely early 80's. SL vastly expanded snowmaking after that.

[CoastalWx]

19 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

I can just picture you at recess beating up other kids because you had no snow days. 

The thing is, it was the norm so we didn't know any better. I will say the those dark years had some good convection in the warm season. Pretty cool to have a tornado touch down a couple of miles from my house in July 89.

[OceanStWx]

1 minute ago, CoastalWx said:

The thing is, it was the norm so we didn't know any better. I will say the those dark years had some good convection in the warm season. Pretty cool to have a tornado touch down a couple of miles from my house in July 89.

Big for the tropical weenies too with Gloria and Bob following up in 1991.

[CoastalWx]

14 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Big for the tropical weenies too with Gloria and Bob following up in 1991.

Gloria pretty much launched my weenie to the max. Still remember that one.

[Hoth]

17 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

The thing is, it was the norm so we didn't know any better. I will say the those dark years had some good convection in the warm season. Pretty cool to have a tornado touch down a couple of miles from my house in July 89.

That outbreak effed up my old neighborhood in Hamden in July '89. Until recently there was a huge oak that had a chunk of slate shingle embedded several inches in its trunk like a tomahawk.

[ORH_wxman]

I think we'd need a 1938 to make up for the lack of snow in the 1980s and early 1990s. At least for me  

January '87 was a pretty epic month but outside of that it's pretty bleak...'81-'82 was probably the only truly very good winter. Lots of events and lots of cold. '86-'87 was epic January but not a whole lot else until the April 87 event. February did have a huge event on the Cape. 

'83-'84 was decent (probably excellent up north though) but had a hideous February that would have left a sour note...but that winter did probably have the storm of the decade...March 28-29, 1984. That storm was uncategorically a beast. 

But the ratters that decade were just awful...way too many of them and it continued for 3 winters in the early '90s. 

[CoastalWx]

2 minutes ago, Hoth said:

That outbreak effed up my old neighborhood in Hamden in July '89. Until recently there was a huge oak that had a chunk of slate shingle embedded several inches in its trunk like a tomahawk.

That's awesome. I had no idea what was going on that day until the sky turned green and I heard about the outbreak shortly after. I remember some great tstms from that time into the 90s. 00s had their share too until the last several years around here. Epic macroburst in May 1996 across the Brockton area. 

[CoastalWx]

3 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

I think we'd need a 1938 to make up for the lack of snow in the 1980s and early 1990s. At least for me  

January '87 was a pretty epic month but outside of that it's pretty bleak...'81-'82 was probably the only truly very good winter. Lots of events and lots of cold. '86-'87 was epic January but not a whole lot else until the April 87 event. February did have a huge event on the Cape. 

'83-'84 was decent (probably excellent up north though) but had a hideous February that would have left a sour note...but that winter did probably have the storm of the decade...March 28-29, 1984. That storm was uncategorically a beast. 

But the ratters that decade were just awful...way too many of them and it continued for 3 winters in the early '90s. 

It was terrible. But I thought that was the norm at the time. You just always hoped to the big one and accepted the 3-6 deals.

[ORH_wxman]

3 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

It was terrible. But I thought that was the norm at the time. You just always hoped to the big one and accepted the 3-6 deals.

Memories of Harvey Leonard and Bruce Schwoegler going 3-6" used to insight jumping off the walls in anticipation. 

[CoastalWx]

6 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Memories of Harvey Leonard and Bruce Schwoegler going 3-6" used to insight jumping off the walls in anticipation. 

I needed CPR if I was in the 8-12 zone.

[ORH_wxman]

4 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I needed CPR if I was in the 8-12 zone.

And if you were, it busted. You'd wake up when it was supposed to already be 2-4" on the ground and it would be overcast and bare ground with the disc of the sun showing through the clouds. You would get that sinking feeling immediately. It would eventually snow but taper off after 4". Then a 1980s cutter would wash it away 3 days later with 0F temps and bare ground the morning after. 

Rinse and repeat...those were the 80s and early 90s for those who didn't experience them and were wondering where all this talk of fear comes from when discussing them. They leave deep scars in snow weenie children for life. 

[met_fan]

55 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

And if you were, it busted. You'd wake up when it was supposed to already be 2-4" on the ground and it would be overcast and bare ground with the disc of the sun showing through the clouds. You would get that sinking feeling immediately. It would eventually snow but taper off after 4". Then a 1980s cutter would wash it away 3 days later with 0F temps and bare ground the morning after. 

Rinse and repeat...those were the 80s and early 90s for those who didn't experience them and were wondering where all this talk of fear comes from when discussing them. They leave deep scars in snow weenie children for life. 

 

1 hour ago, CoastalWx said:

I needed CPR if I was in the 8-12 zone.

How old were you guys in he 80's? I thought you were younger than that.

[FRWEATHA]

Orh wx's summary of the 80s is pretty good. That 81-82 winter was especially good up north. I remember being there during February vacation and there being deep snows. The following year was a super Nino and it was like last year with no snow and very warm even up north. February 87 actually had 2 successive blizzards on the Cape that would have had James going wild with posts. My general memories here on the CP are of less snow in the 80s han the last 2.5 decades.  Some years (2015, 2003) are reminiscent of those mid to late 70s winters that were snowy even here when I was in grade school.

[OceanStWx]

29 minutes ago, met_fan said:

How old were you guys in he 80's? I thought you were younger than that.

You forget Will's mind is like a bear trap when it comes to remember snow events. 

[CoastalWx]

54 minutes ago, met_fan said:

 

How old were you guys in he 80's? I thought you were younger than that.

I was in grade school, born in 79. I do have memories of the feb 83 blizzard, and the 87 winter as being good as Will said, but other than that, eh. Wasn't much to get excited for. 

[CoastalWx]

1 hour ago, ORH_wxman said:

And if you were, it busted. You'd wake up when it was supposed to already be 2-4" on the ground and it would be overcast and bare ground with the disc of the sun showing through the clouds. You would get that sinking feeling immediately. It would eventually snow but taper off after 4". Then a 1980s cutter would wash it away 3 days later with 0F temps and bare ground the morning after. 

Rinse and repeat...those were the 80s and early 90s for those who didn't experience them and were wondering where all this talk of fear comes from when discussing them. They leave deep scars in snow weenie children for life. 

Fooking Schwoegler and his squalls that never happen. 1-3" forecasted iy to wake up to sun and bare ground.

[powderfreak]

6 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

It was terrible. But I thought that was the norm at the time. You just always hoped to the big one and accepted the 3-6 deals.

Sounds like right now and past few years for some parts of New England.  

Accepting 3-6 inches but some can't even get that.

[powderfreak]

6 hours ago, ORH_wxman said:

And if you were, it busted. You'd wake up when it was supposed to already be 2-4" on the ground and it would be overcast and bare ground with the disc of the sun showing through the clouds. You would get that sinking feeling immediately. It would eventually snow but taper off after 4". Then a 1980s cutter would wash it away 3 days later with 0F temps and bare ground the morning after. 

Rinse and repeat...those were the 80s and early 90s for those who didn't experience them and were wondering where all this talk of fear comes from when discussing them. They leave deep scars in snow weenie children for life. 

What you just described is exactly what Hudson Valley to Champlain Valley has experienced the past few years, it's uncanny.  When you really think of it, that's been happening for years.  Crazy stuff and you're right, leaving deep scars for some.

#gladwedont....

[CoastalWx]

21 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

What you just described is exactly what Hudson Valley to Champlain Valley has experienced the past few years, it's uncanny.  When you really think of it, that's been happening for years.  Crazy stuff and you're right, leaving deep scars for some.

#gladwedont....

I know you get excited for the mtn weather, but they seem like a relative enigma this year compared to surrounding areas. It's true that at least you've  had snow OTG for weeks...but I get the feeling many aren't thrilled with a 5" pack.

[powderfreak]

32 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I know you get excited for the mtn weather, but they seem like a relative enigma this year compared to surrounding areas. It's true that at least you've  had snow OTG for weeks...but I get the feeling many aren't thrilled with a 5" pack.

I think the Champlain Valley would be thrilled with a 5" pack in BTV land.

Interior VT has some decent depths all things considered though not deep winter.  Around here its 6-10" below 1,200ft on the east side per the spotters but more like 10-24" in interior VT, especially towards the NEK.

This map is a little too vibrant for me but gives you an idea.  I guess I just don't have the angst after years like last winter, or 2013-14 when it rained more inches in January than snow here and Philly had like 6 warning events.  Or even 14-15 when it was -20F and dry for like 2 months.  Just give me consistent snows and relatively comfortable mountains temps and we all good.

 

[powderfreak]

Either way, the Hudson to Champlain Valley has been doing the 1980s thing quite a bit lately in recent winters.

[CoastalWx]

15 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

I think the Champlain Valley would be thrilled with a 5" pack in BTV land.

Interior VT has some decent depths all things considered though not deep winter.  Around here its 6-10" below 1,200ft on the east side per the spotters but more like 10-24" in interior VT, especially towards the NEK.

This map is a little too vibrant for me but gives you an idea.  I guess I just don't have the angst after years like last winter, or 2013-14 when it rained more inches in January than snow here and Philly had like 6 warning events.  Or even 14-15 when it was -20F and dry for like 2 months.  Just give me consistent snows and relatively comfortable mountains temps and we all good.

 

Well yeah the NEK just had that dumping, but not much prior. And yes the opposite enigma is occurring in the Hudson and CPV. Although I also went two years without a warning from early February 2011 to early February 2013....I have to think it's more anomalous for BTV to pull that same stat. This month down here is terrible aside from the 14" dumping we had on the 7th. I know that's salt on Eyewall's wounds but it did not last at all. 

[ORH_wxman]

7 hours ago, met_fan said:

 

How old were you guys in he 80's? I thought you were younger than that.

I was born in summer of '81 so I don't recall early years (too bad since '81-'82 was my first winter in this earth and a great one)but i have a unique memory of the 1980s that leaves especially deep scars...we moved to Texas when I was 2 and then moved back in 1988...in between, we had visited family for Christmas through New Years several times and I had recollection of the January 2, 1987 storm in Holden MA and also a white Christmas in 1985...when we moved back I was in grade school and was told tales of all the huge blizzards and storms i would see. Again I had gotten a little taste of a good storm in Jan 87...about 12" of paste. But instead after being told time and again that we would be getting slammed and I would see huge storms, what I got was the 1988-1989 winter...probably the worst winter of the 1980s  here, capped off by probably the biggest forecast bust too in the feb 24-25 storm...nothing like seeing 1-2 feet of snow forecasted turn into 4" of sand. That will leave emotional scars for a grade school snow weenie. I think what made it even worse back then was there wasn't this wealth of instant information like we have now via the Internet...so you would often go to sleep with no clue of the impending disaster that was to unfold when you woke up to the disc of the sun and then hear the weatherman say the storm is going further out to sea then they thought leaving you with a feeling of helplessness. Then as if that wasn't bad enough, I got 1989-1990 through 1991-1992 winters the next 3 years after that. 4 consecutive winters without a double digit snow event...the only period in ORH's record they pulled that off. In fact, they had never done three winters in a row, nevermind 4. What perfect timing to move back!!!!

[powderfreak]

2 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

Well yeah the NEK just had that dumping, but not much prior. And yes the opposite enigma is occurring in the Hudson and CPV. Although I also went two years without a warning from early February 2011 to early February 2013....I have to think it's more anomalous for BTV to pull that same stat. This month down here is terrible aside from the 14" dumping we had on the 7th. I know that's salt on Eyewall's wounds but it did not last at all. 

Yeah this month is pretty terrible for Snowfall here too...it's just been barely cold enough to hold cover all the time and when it has snowed on the mountain it's been right after conditions turn sour.  So it's given the appeal of better than the numbers show from a ski perspective.  

But down in town I think even with this last 4" over 2 days of random squalls my January total at home is probably less than your one 14" storm.  

Nov and Dec were very good though IMO.

[met_fan]

That's amazing to remember that stuff. I'm slightly older ('75) and grew around Binghamton, so I'm not sure if their totals were quite as bad in those years - my recollections of individual events are a bit foggier. Looking at Binghamton's historical totals though, I had two great years right before I left for college - 123 in '92-'93 and 131 in '93-'94. However, prior to that going back to '78-'79, the best I did was get to 81 a couple times and there were a bunch of totals in 50s. They've had some decent totals in recent years, but have mostly whiffed in any big storms for quite a while now, much like the Albany area up through Burlington.

[Ginx snewx]

9 hours ago, OceanStWx said:

You forget Will's mind is like a bear trap when it comes to remember snow events. 

I have not see mention of the Feb 83 blizzard.  18 to 20 inches and 5 foot drifts in coastal RI. A true blizzard  

[Typhoon Tip]

Imagine if the general theme of 1985 through 1991 were a one in 500 year anomaly? 

The field of operational weather often categorizes singular events as one in ten, one in twenty ...  'one in so many years' sort of return rate, but consider the opposite; there is no reason mathematically why we cannot qualify the "absence" of meaningful impact in their own rite. 

Suppose one perfectly sunny day, with temperatures of 74 F, dew points of 50 F, in early May, with wind barely noticeable and visibility some 100 miles when peering out from any of the elevated vistas, natural or man made, in SNE. That's a one day in one year sort of return rate.  It would be exceptionally rare to have only a single that is "Disneyesque" out 365 days.  Now suppose getting two of those back to back?  How about three.... or four or five?  Back to back to back ... n backs, we might be getting into a once in ten or twenty year return rate by the time we get out to a week's worth of blue-bird on my shoulder utopias..

So, flip that around so as to be consistent with the perspectives of the present audience:  Those would be taken as 'dystopian' periods, particularly when they characterize a whole winter (but who am I kidding - the denizens of this forum can't hardly stand two minutes of it, either..).

So, what I am getting at is ... perhaps having two dearth years in a row is a one in five probability of occurrence in its self..?  I wonder how a mathematical/statistical effort would calculate the return rate for six consecutive dearth years?  Call me morbidly curious perhaps ... but I am interested in how often that takes place.  My hunch, without looking at numbers but just based upon anecdotal and experiences and climate knowledge all combined, is that it's probably a 'hockey-stick' curve.  Like it's not that uncommon to get two or three ... four years in row...  but six or seven suddenly have greater standard deviations.  Hmm. 

In any event, I was alive and well in adolescents with my family during the "Cleveland Super-bomb" of January 25-27, 1978.  Before that, my passion for weather experiences was already deeply part of my soul. Not sure why and when or how that became so, but the majority of my memories of early childhood have bytes of memory engrams that are weather-related.  Most of those have to do with convection.  After that January week of infamy ... ? I became just about evenly split, equally enamored and fascinated by winter and summer. 

By the time I was an early teenager, my family (and self included) relocated to Rockport, Massachusetts, out on the eastern tip of Cape Ann ... where the smell of the ocean combined with the very incorporeal nature of new culture, its self, could not have proved any more disparately comparable to those experiences of growing up in southwest Lower Michigan!  Although, peering out from a 100 foot tall sand dune out across Lake Michigan, at for what all intents and purposes to the observer is just as much the top-side of an abyssal plain as the ocean, does bear some similarities in that moment; the simultaneous awareness of geography at large accompanies and makes the experiences wholly different. 

Anyway, tt was there that I met a close friend (to this day ... FB from time to time) who was equally a weather nerd. His focus, however, was righteously, severely target at coastal storms ...these so called "Nor'easters" - first time the expression ever crossed my ears. That was back in 1984... 

The road is entirely different, the one called life, but... I find this parallel to what Will described to be remarkably similar... Being transplanting to a new culture and then having the foundation of expectations, reinforced by the imagination of a small boy, create a reality perhaps even more fantastic then the stories we endured about the dreaded Nor-easter.

Talk about "set us up" for one thing, but then reality cruelly delivering something else?   I was not adolescent by the time I went through the same dystopic misery that he and others (my self included) have difficulty describing in justifiable macabre terms, but being 13 through 19 years of age, DEFINITELY are a cruelty integrated into some portion of my weather super ego (ID), as an adult. If I had been kidnapped by a creeping, stalking sociopath known as "the weather", held in a terrifying hell of lurid apoplexy, then ... saved by the 1990s, my teen-age years were stolen from me in the same vein, ...by the dreaded 1980s.      

 

[eekuasepinniW]

I hate winter so hard right now. Last night, under cover of darkness, I slipped and fell down the stairs, smashed my knee and bent my foot all to hell. Almost puked and passed out, then crawled back inside. lolz. Not sure if I broke anything... but I can't walk and will probably see a doctor tomorrow.

Probably time for me to get life alert.