Met Winter 2016-17 Banter

[Stormlover74]

31 minutes ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said:

I don't think that would explain what will now be 19 months in a row. Even in a climate that's getting warmer there would be at least a few months in there, 2,3, even 5 months, that would come in below normal. We're taking the averages against 1981-2010 norms which are pretty high to begin with.

It seems to also be fairly localized to NYC. Nearby locations like Newark and Philly have had below-normal months like last May for instance. Interior locations have as well whereas it is becoming increasingly more difficult for NYC to take advantage of radiational cooling.

[danstorm]

34 minutes ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said:

I don't think that would explain what will now be 19 months in a row. Even in a climate that's getting warmer there would be at least a few months in there, 2,3, even 5 months, that would come in below normal. We're taking the averages against 1981-2010 norms which are pretty high to begin with.

Yeah, it's climate change, but it's also statistical noise, too.  

[bluewave]

22 minutes ago, Stormlover74 said:

It seems to also be fairly localized to NYC. Nearby locations like Newark and Philly have had below-normal months like last May for instance. Interior locations have as well whereas it is becoming increasingly more difficult for NYC to take advantage of radiational cooling.

It isn't localized to NYC as 17% of the planet saw all 12 months above normal in 2016. 

NYC is actually behind the curve compared to other much warmer spots relative to the means.

Dutch Harbor, AK, extended their streak of consecutive months with above normal temperatures to 43! #akwx @AlaskaWx

Maps show number of months with above normal temps in 2016. Global ave. is 8.7. One sixth of Earth was above norm all 12 months. @AlaskaWxpic.twitter.com/QdDBPMN5dn

 

[NycStormChaser]

24 minutes ago, WeatherFeen2000 said:

Who's the best snow forecaster besides me and Paul?

Joking, right?

[WeatherFeen2000]

1 minute ago, seanick said:

Joking, right?

No 

 

[UlsterCountySnowZ]

6 minutes ago, WeatherFeen2000 said:

No 

 

1 out of how many?

[Monmouth_County_Jacpot]

4 minutes ago, UlsterCountySnowZ said:

1 out of how many?

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

[pazzo83]

45 minutes ago, WeatherFeen2000 said:

Who's the best snow forecaster besides me and Paul?

That Mike dude who once claimed we wouldn't have a leaf-out until Memorial Day.

[WeatherFeen2000]

I had 4 inches for the last event I got 5 inches in the Bronx. Central Park got a bit less but you know they always undermeasure. We'll see for the next event you guys make too much fun of me I think I'm gonna cry

[forkyfork]

want everyone to like you and think you're great? parrot joe bastardi 

[NycStormChaser]

2 hours ago, WeatherFeen2000 said:

I had 4 inches for the last event I got 5 inches in the Bronx. Central Park got a bit less but you know they always undermeasure. We'll see for the next event you guys make too much fun of me I think I'm gonna cry

But you give no scientific reasoning behind your snowfall maps. Anyone can take a guess based off of other posters on here and be right once in awhile. 

[mriceyman]

2 hours ago, WeatherFeen2000 said:

I had 4 inches for the last event I got 5 inches in the Bronx. Central Park got a bit less but you know they always undermeasure. We'll see for the next event you guys make too much fun of me I think I'm gonna cry

Never heard of ya pal

[uncle W]

January 10th, 1836 three foot snowstorm...Known as the Big Snow...

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030311/1836-01-11/ed-1/seq-2/

[Dan76]

Heck of a sunrise

[Snowshack]

9 hours ago, uncle W said:

January 10th, 1836 three foot snowstorm...Known as the Big Snow...

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030311/1836-01-11/ed-1/seq-2/

Thanks for posting the link. Enjoy reading these old newspaper articles.   Almost hard there believe there was a full day of rain on the front end of 3' of snow in NYC.  If that account can be believed, it shows there is still potential even beyond some of these great events we've had since 2000.  

[bluewave]

22 minutes ago, Snowshack said:

Thanks for posting the link. Enjoy reading these old newspaper articles.   Almost hard there believe there was a full day of rain on the front end of 3' of snow in NYC.  If that account can be believed, it shows there is still potential even beyond some of these great events we've had since 2000.  

They probably have us beat for duration of snowcover since those winters near and just after the LIA were so cold.

It looks like 1779-1780 was colder than 1917-1918. It may have also been snowier than 1995-1996 from reading these old accounts.

http://www.wanj.org/morristown_worse_than_valley_forge.php

Ludlam points out that weather historians refer to a period beginning in 1750 and extending for about a century as “A little ice age” or “the cool one hundred years.” The winter that I am considering today was called “The Hard Winter.” The prolonged cold and incessant snow reached as deep south as Georgia and as far north as frozen fingers could be found to write.

There were 28 separate snowstorms recorded at Morristown from November 1779, to April 1780. At least two of the falls were of genuine blizzard proportions.

The winter of 1779-80 was the only time in recorded history that the Hudson River froze so solidly that sleighs could be driven between Paulus Hook (now Jersey City) and New York. Simultaneously, The New Jersey Gazette reported that sleighs could be driven on the Delaware River ice from Trenton to Philadelphia. Ice froze to reported thicknesses of six feet in the Passaic and Raritan Rivers. Every East Coast seaport from Virginia north was closed for weeks by ice.

[Morris]

24 minutes ago, bluewave said:

They probably have had us beat for duration of snowcover since those winters near and just after the LIA were so cold.

 

http://www.wanj.org/morristown_worse_than_valley_forge.php

Ludlam points out that weather historians refer to a period beginning in 1750 and extending for about a century as “A little ice age” or “the cool one hundred years.” The winter that I am considering today was called “The Hard Winter.” The prolonged cold and incessant snow reached as deep south as Georgia and as far north as frozen fingers could be found to write.

There is no possible way for anyone to describe fully in limited time the viciousness of that winter. There is no possible way to relive it, in an age when winter suffering is only that awful agony we undergo while waiting for the car to heat up.

There were 28 separate snowstorms recorded at Morristown from November 1779, to April 1780. At least two of the falls were of genuine blizzard proportions—and by real blizzard proportions I do not mean the kind of few hours of wind-driven snow that enthusiastic TV people now call a blizzard and prove it with their charts and pointers. By blizzard I mean howling winds, biting cold, and snow piling up and drifting for two or three days at a time.

The winter of 1779-80 was the only time in recorded history that the Hudson River froze so solidly that sleighs could be driven between Paulus Hook (now Jersey City) and New York. Simultaneously, The New Jersey Gazette reported that sleighs could be driven on the Delaware River ice from Trenton to Philadelphia. Ice froze to reported thicknesses of six feet in the Passaic and Raritan Rivers. Every East Coast seaport from Virginia north was closed for weeks by ice.

Bring it back!

If we ever lock in a -EPO +PNA -AO -NAO with constant disruptions to the polar vortex for a whole winter, this wouldn't happen?

[bluewave]

13 minutes ago, Morris said:

Bring it back!

If we ever lock in a -EPO +PNA -AO -NAO with constant disruptions to the polar vortex for a whole winter, this wouldn't happen?

You would probably need a volcanic winter event to bring that kind of cold back since the climate has warmed so much since then.

[Snowshack]

16 minutes ago, Morris said:

Bring it back!

If we ever lock in a -EPO +PNA -AO -NAO with constant disruptions to the polar vortex for a whole winter, this wouldn't happen?

We've  seen very persistent blocking patterns recently.  The background warmth just cant be denied.  

[Snowshack]

47 minutes ago, bluewave said:

They probably have us beat for duration of snowcover since those winters near and just after the LIA were so cold.

It looks like 1779-1780 was colder than 1917-1918. It may have also been snowier than 1995-1996 from reading these old accounts.

http://www.wanj.org/morristown_worse_than_valley_forge.php

Ludlam points out that weather historians refer to a period beginning in 1750 and extending for about a century as “A little ice age” or “the cool one hundred years.” The winter that I am considering today was called “The Hard Winter.” The prolonged cold and incessant snow reached as deep south as Georgia and as far north as frozen fingers could be found to write.

There were 28 separate snowstorms recorded at Morristown from November 1779, to April 1780. At least two of the falls were of genuine blizzard proportions.

The winter of 1779-80 was the only time in recorded history that the Hudson River froze so solidly that sleighs could be driven between Paulus Hook (now Jersey City) and New York. Simultaneously, The New Jersey Gazette reported that sleighs could be driven on the Delaware River ice from Trenton to Philadelphia. Ice froze to reported thicknesses of six feet in the Passaic and Raritan Rivers. Every East Coast seaport from Virginia north was closed for weeks by ice.

Remarkable.  Sounds like NNE climate in NYC.  

Interesting to read those newspaper accounts and the language they use to describe these winter events as compared to the terror tv news anchors convey about 2-4" today.  

 

[bluewave]

7 minutes ago, Snowshack said:

Remarkable.  Sounds like NNE climate in NYC.  

Interesting to read those newspaper accounts and the language they use to describe these winter events as compared to the terror tv news anchors convey about 2-4" today.  

 

Supposedly, Philly only rose above freezing one day during January 1780. 

https://books.google.com/books?id=mon_ivVXUY4C&pg=PA76&dq=philadelphia+winter+1779-1780+google+books&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-wtXC1bfRAhVGOSYKHcWVAi4Q6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=philadelphia winter 1779-1780 google books&f=false

[CIK62]

All this climatological nostalgia makes it seem the board feels no real winter to speak of till say 1/26,  when this stinky season next puts on another performance of one of its' week long winter specials>>>>              KNOCK  KNOCK    LOOKS WHO'S HERE AGAIN

 

[nyblizz44]

It appears we have a chance at a bit of snow on Sat., Doesnt interest anyone here? Pretty suprprised gotta say.

[pazzo83]

20 minutes ago, CIK62 said:

All this climatological nostalgia makes it seem the board feels no real winter to speak of till say 1/26,  when this stinky season next puts on another performance of one of its' week long winter specials>>>>              KNOCK  KNOCK    LOOKS WHO'S HERE AGAIN

 

At least you keep it to the banter thread.  Of course you'd probably be banned if you didn't.

[JerseyWx]

4 hours ago, bluewave said:

They probably have us beat for duration of snowcover since those winters near and just after the LIA were so cold.

It looks like 1779-1780 was colder than 1917-1918. It may have also been snowier than 1995-1996 from reading these old accounts.

http://www.wanj.org/morristown_worse_than_valley_forge.php

Ludlam points out that weather historians refer to a period beginning in 1750 and extending for about a century as “A little ice age” or “the cool one hundred years.” The winter that I am considering today was called “The Hard Winter.” The prolonged cold and incessant snow reached as deep south as Georgia and as far north as frozen fingers could be found to write.

There were 28 separate snowstorms recorded at Morristown from November 1779, to April 1780. At least two of the falls were of genuine blizzard proportions.

The winter of 1779-80 was the only time in recorded history that the Hudson River froze so solidly that sleighs could be driven between Paulus Hook (now Jersey City) and New York. Simultaneously, The New Jersey Gazette reported that sleighs could be driven on the Delaware River ice from Trenton to Philadelphia. Ice froze to reported thicknesses of six feet in the Passaic and Raritan Rivers. Every East Coast seaport from Virginia north was closed for weeks by ice.

Very glad you posted something regarding the Winter at Morristown Bluewave.  I remember talking to a friend about this about 2 years ago, during our frigid February 2015.  They were a little surprised that this Winter was worse than Valley Forge.  Although fewer men died, that was because of less disease and better shelter.  It was brutally cold, and Washington remarked about one of the storms, that no one in the area, even the oldest residents, had seen such a snowfall.  Very interesting piece of Revolutionary history from right here in NJ.

I found some interesting sites that talk about the 1779-1780 Winter.  The first has some quotes from soldiers.  The second talks about the encampments at Jockey Hollow and what happened to them.  Check this out: http://www.revolutionarywararchives.org/coldwinter.html 

And this:   https://www.nps.gov/morr/faqs.htm 

[CIK62]

Any links to a snow event known as the "Great Cold Snowstorm, NYC", about Jan. 1856 or so?    One of my old NYC Daily News Weather Almanacs, from the early 60's---now lost, referred to this as a reverse Blizzard Of '88.    Snow started with temps. below 0 and ended as rain.   Only other sub-zero snow (when air is bone dry usually) is in 1917-18, I think.   

Just before the -2 in Jan. 1985, I remember snow squalls (on a Sun AM) with a northwestern, fair weather wind and a temperature of 11.

[uncle W]

45 minutes ago, CIK62 said:

Any links to a snow event known as the "Great Cold Snowstorm, NYC", about Jan. 1856 or so?    One of my old NYC Daily News Weather Almanacs, from the early 60's---now lost, referred to this as a reverse Blizzard Of '88.    Snow started with temps. below 0 and ended as rain.   Only other sub-zero snow (when air is bone dry usually) is in 1917-18, I think.   

Just before the -2 in Jan. 1985, I remember snow squalls (on a Sun AM) with a northwestern, fair weather wind and a temperature of 11.

 

http://chroniclingam...-20/ed-1/seq-5/

[PB GFI]

3 minutes ago, uncle W said:

 

http://chroniclingam...-20/ed-1/seq-5/

 

Highlighted , Nauseating . 

[uncle W]

1866-67 was a big snow year in NYC...

January 1867

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1867-01-18/ed-1/seq-4/

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1867-01-21/ed-1/seq-5/

March 1867

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1867-03-18/ed-1/seq-5/

[IrishRob17]

Anyone besides me question some of the old reports and records?  With all of the science, tools, and procedures we have in place today folks still cant take accurate measurements or maintain accurate records.  I don't deny it was colder then I just wonder about some of this stuff sometimes.