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November 2016 General Discussion


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6 minutes ago, Chitown Storm said:

The GFS has been sinking the heavy snow further south over the last several runs since 0z. Not nearly to the extent the GEM is, but there is a trend. Should be a fun few days of model watching. But you're right, the 12z GEM is pure candy at this point. 

if I'm seeing the operational Euro come in correctly on Pivotal, it looks a lot faster than either the GFS or the GGEM by at least a gear or two, and just a shade south of the current GFS. definitely going to be a fun few days. and one of these days I have to subscribe to someplace like eurowx.com or something like that to get higher resolution Euro maps.

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Just now, Jim Marusak said:

if I'm seeing the operational Euro come in correctly on Pivotal, it looks a lot faster than either the GFS or the GGEM by at least a gear or two, and just a shade south of the current GFS. definitely going to be a fun few days. and one of these days I have to subscribe to someplace like eurowx.com or something like that to get higher resolution Euro maps.

 

Yeah the Euro has been consistently faster than the GFS for the past few days, and the new 12z may be the quickest yet.  It's a little weaker with the storm (988mb vs <985 ) than previous runs, but man it still delivers the goods.  Absolutely smokes the Willmar/Brainerd/Grand Rapids corridor Friday.  Even the MSP area gets a few inches on the back side behind the departing low.  This is gonna be fun to watch.

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Glad to see something to watch, and as always, I enjoy reading your guys take on model trends.  Based off the current track, I wouldn't be surprised to see 6-8" of lake enhancement/effect after the low passes.  42 and fog this afternoon, but still above normal.  Won't be long now until the snow is here.  Currently running a foot below the norm.

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4 hours ago, cyclone77 said:

GFS continues to bring the pain to the northern MW and Plains.  Dumps almost 2 feet of wind driven snow over northwest MN by Saturday.  45-55mph wind gusts along the heavy snow swath as well.  Very impressive baroclinic zone over MN Friday.  MSP area could be in the 60s, while a few hundred miles north/west will be in a full-on blizzard.  

Glanced at the GEM too for the heck of it, and got a nice laugh.  It completely blanks the areas the Euro and GFS have consistently dumped heavy snow on, and instead dumps the heavy snow from Iowa into Wisconsin. 

Canadian really is not a good model anymore. It struggles. I would take it's solution that as it gives me snow. :weenie:

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The GFS' southern march seems to have halted with today's 18z run. Maybe we can score a slushy dusting on the backend here in the twin cities. The ground is a furnace with all the warmth this fall so temps would have to crash real quickly for any meaningful accumulation.

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1 hour ago, Younar said:

The GFS' southern march seems to have halted with today's 18z run. Maybe we can score a slushy dusting on the backend here in the twin cities. The ground is a furnace with all the warmth this fall so temps would have to crash real quickly for any meaningful accumulation.

 

 

You're right that the 18z stalled. But, the 12z Euro was a very nice step in the right direction. The low was centered almost right over the metro compared to the 12z run yesterday that had the low near the SD/ND/MN border. As Cyclone mentioned, the TC still got a few inches on the backend. The GFS is the farthest NW at the point. Still too early to say which model has the best handle on things. Expect more flip flops thru Wed. At least we have something to track. 

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23 minutes ago, Chitown Storm said:

You're right that the 18z stalled. But, the 12z Euro was a very nice step in the right direction. The low was centered almost right over the metro compared to the 12z run yesterday that had the low near the SD/ND/MN border. As Cyclone mentioned, the TC still got a few inches on the backend. The GFS is the farthest NW at the point. Still too early to say which model has the best handle on things. Expect more flip flops thru Wed. At least we have something to track. 

Yeah I noticed that about the euro after I posted. Also the EPS is about 60 miles even further south east than the op... down near red wing. Which also represents a big jump east from the previous EPS run so the op has some support. The op is pretty much right over my head at the same point in time. I'll take whatever we can get and be happy with it (even if just our first freeze of the season at MSP lol).

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Euro another tick weaker with the system.  Now only deepens it briefly to 989mb before quickly filling, and hence a bit further southeast as well.  Still gives the MSP area a few inches of wet snow on the back side before the system rapidly departs.  Despite a slightly further southeast track compared to the 12z the main snow swath remains about the same.

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Finally!

Saturday...Rain and snow likely, becoming all snow after noon. Widespread blowing snow after 4pm. Cloudy, with a high near 36. Breezy.

Saturday Night...Snow likely. Areas of blowing snow. Cloudy, with a low around 24. Blustery.

Sunday...Snow likely. Patchy blowing snow. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 29. Blustery.

Sunday Night...A chance of snow. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 23.

 

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3 hours ago, Stebo said:

Any reason you think this or just stabbing into the dark?

no...

 

for one, it's an outlier. and two, this system goes negative tilt well before it even reaches our subforum, as well as a high amplitude upper level pattern to go along with it, which more times than not would favor a slower solution than what the euro is depicting. there's no reason to buy into the faster euro solutions just yet, but we'll see.

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From a few days ago...

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE CHICAGO IL
151 AM CST SAT NOV 12 2016 /251 AM EST SAT NOV 12 2016/

..ROCKFORD SETS RECORD FOR LATEST FIRST AUTUMN FREEZE

JUST PRIOR TO MIDNIGHT ON FRIDAY EVENING NOVEMBER 11, THE
OFFICIAL TEMPERATURE AT ROCKFORD HAD DROPPED TO 32 DEGREES. THIS
WAS THE FIRST FREEZING TEMPERATURE OF THE AUTUMN SEASON AND IS THE
LATEST FIRST FREEZE ON RECORD (DATING BACK TO 1905). IT BREAKS THE
OLD RECORD OF NOVEMBER 4, 1973 BY AN ENTIRE WEEK. THE NORMAL FIRST
FREEZE FOR ROCKFORD IS OCTOBER 8.

THE LENGTH OF TIME BETWEEN THE LAST SPRING FREEZE AND THE FIRST
AUTUMN FREEZE, SOMETIMES REFERRED TO AS THE GROWING SEASON, WAS
TECHNICALLY NOT A RECORD IN 2016 FOR ROCKFORD. THIS WAS BECAUSE
THE LAST SPRING FREEZE ON MAY 15 WAS LATE COMPARED TO THE NORMAL
OF APRIL 28. HOWEVER, THE LOW ON MAY 15 WAS ONLY 31 DEGREES AND
IT WAS THE ONLY SUBFREEZING LOW AFTER APRIL 12 AND LIKELY DID NOT
HAVE AN IMPACT ON MOST AGRICULTURE. HAD APRIL 12 BEEN THE FINAL
FREEZE, THE 213 DAYS BETWEEN LAST AND FIRST FREEZE WOULD HAVE BEEN
A RECORD TOPPING THE 203 DAYS IN 1973. THIS YEAR'S GROWING SEASON
LENGTH FOR ROCKFORD WILL OFFICIALLY GO DOWN AS 179 DAYS. THE
NORMAL IS 162 DAYS.

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7 hours ago, Maxim said:

no...

 

for one, it's an outlier. and two, this system goes negative tilt well before it even reaches our subforum, as well as a high amplitude upper level pattern to go along with it, which more times than not would favor a slower solution than what the euro is depicting. there's no reason to buy into the faster euro solutions just yet, but we'll see.

That is much better, since you have a low amount of posts I just wanted to get a read on your posting, One liners with no information don't really do much for the threads, when you expand on the posts like this it is much better. I will say be careful with the Euro, it has been known to be too fast lately since the last update.

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most of the 12z runs are in, and I don't know about anyone else, but I'm starting to see a general pattern here on where the possibility of heavy snow (6+"/15+ cms snow) is increasing rapidly for the end of the week and this weekend. if I were to outline an area across the northern plains and the western Great Lakes that would be candidates for Winter Storm Watches, I'd go with roughly inside the area bounded by the following observing stations as a starting point:

Fargo ND (KFAR) > Aberdeen SD (KABR) > Watertown SD (KATY) > Sioux Falls SD (KFSD) > Redwood Falls MN (KRWF) > St Cloud MN (KSTC) > Duluth MN (KDLH) > Thunder Bay ON (CYQT) > Chapleau ON (CYLD) > Kapuskasing ON (CYYU) > Sioux Lookout ON (CYXL) > International Falls MN/Fort Frances ON (KINL).

I know that area will probably change, and there's a lot that can change thermo-wise and otherwise the next couple of days. But as a rough starting point, that's what it looks like to me that could be used as a base area in which to adjust around. Agree? disagree? got adjustments to that you'd like to make?

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ORD had 3+ hours of 0M vis this morning with the fog...

KORD 151551Z 33005KT 0SM R10L/1600V2400FT FG OVC002 08/08 A2991 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/2 SLP133 T00780078

KORD 151451Z 35004KT 0SM R10L/0800V1200FT FG VV002 07/07 A2990 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/8 SLP128 T00720072 50009

KORD 151351Z 34005KT 0SM R10L/0700V0800FT FG VV002 07/06 A2991 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/16 SLP131 T00670061

KORD 151308Z 33004KT 0SM R10L/1200V2200FT FG VV002 06/06 A2989 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/8 T00610056

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13 minutes ago, Chicago Storm said:

ORD had 3+ hours of 0M vis this morning with the fog...

KORD 151551Z 33005KT 0SM R10L/1600V2400FT FG OVC002 08/08 A2991 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/2 SLP133 T00780078

KORD 151451Z 35004KT 0SM R10L/0800V1200FT FG VV002 07/07 A2990 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/8 SLP128 T00720072 50009

KORD 151351Z 34005KT 0SM R10L/0700V0800FT FG VV002 07/06 A2991 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/16 SLP131 T00670061

KORD 151308Z 33004KT 0SM R10L/1200V2200FT FG VV002 06/06 A2989 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/8 T00610056

Tower in the fog, the surface vis was 1/16th at worst. Still pretty incredible to be at 0SM with the tower vis.

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Last reminder for snowfall contest, deadline is end of today in CST. 

If you come across this notice after today and want to enter for the fun of it, I will score late entries made in second half of November (not any made after Nov 30) but your contest rank cannot be higher than sixth if you enter late.

We have a reasonable number of entries so far and quite a few of them look optimistic for snowfall in the region. I will post a summary of the forecasts (just averages, not individual numbers) on this thread tomorrow or possibly Thursday. 

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I seen ground temps and the overall mild pattern mentioned In earlier posts and if the snow could accumulate given the mild weather, let's not forget winter storm atlas that occurred October 3rd-5th 2013, dropping 12-50" of heavy heavy wet snow. 

Really looking back, that early early October blizzard, the November tornado outbreak, and the waves of arctic air that starting occurring in early December really make me reflect on just how truly historic 2013-2014 was. 

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