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I'll see you in September


J Paul Gordon

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8 minutes ago, eekuasepinniW said:

I'm curious what an enraged Powderfreak post would look like.  I wonder who could get him to crack?  Probably me... Like I'd "meh" at one of his ski pictures when he's having a bad day and then he'd snap and start mailing me cans of hearts of palm.

PF is a peaceful skier. Unlike skiVT2 who wished death upon me. 

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I wasn't even trying to upset anyone. We've had this discussion on here before about raditional cold not necessarily being real. In fact, Scooter was involved. I guess my point was it is a real temperature just like his example of dews are real. But I don't agree it has to be in a cool airmass. There are many examples of nights that they decouple and let's say it's 55 there , but 65 in the hills.

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OK, this started two Fall's ago. 850 temps were AN and the airmass was not really cool at all. But we had sprawling HP overhead with limited mixing and ideal radiating conditions. I said that the airmass is being disguised by the cool temps in the burbs because it was mild during the day and temps just off the deck were mild as well. Places like ORH and BOS exhibited that behavior. 

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7 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said:

I wasn't even trying to upset anyone. We've had this discussion on here before about raditional cold not necessarily being real. In fact, Scooter was involved. I guess my point was it is a real temperature just like his example of dews are real. But I don't agree it has to be in a cool airmass. There are many examples of nights that they decouple and let's say it's 55 there , but 65 in the hills.

It is really difficult to jump "categories" of temps like you are suggesting. You won't see many AN air masses with BN morning lows. Maybe you could pull it off in the shoulder season when it's dry, but in general you'll more likely see AN highs and normal lows when it radiates well. Likewise, a normal high temp air mass could see BN lows, etc.

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2 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

OK, this started two Fall's ago. 850 temps were AN and the airmass was not really cool at all. But we had sprawling HP overhead with limited mixing and ideal radiating conditions. I said that the airmass is being disguised by the cool temps in the burbs because it was mild during the day and temps just off the deck were mild as well. Places like ORH and BOS exhibited that behavior. 

I'd see this in spades on still winter mornings when we lived in the back settlement of Ft. Kent, about 450' higher than the center of town.  My drive to our riverside office included a right-angle turn to the north where I could look across into New Brunswick.  If there was a horizontal cloud of smoke about 50 yards above the cedar mill's cone burner, I knew it would be 15° colder at the office than at home - massive smoke-stopping inversion. 

Coldest morning we had in our 4 winters up there was -34 (twice, once with gusts 35 or so and -SN, not a comfy combo) and 6 at -30 or colder.    In 5.7 winters on the flats we had 6 mornings between -39 and -47, another handful -35 to -37, and 30 mornings hitting the -30 threshold.  No comparison.  (Ft. Kent co-op, right on the banks of the Fish River and collecting radiation-blocking "habitation fog" on chill mornings, had 18 reaching the -30s in the 5.7 yr period and 10 during my 4 winters at elevation.)

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3 hours ago, eekuasepinniW said:

I'm curious what an enraged Powderfreak post would look like.  I wonder who could get him to crack?  Probably me... Like I'd "meh" at one of his ski pictures when he's having a bad day and then he'd snap and start mailing me cans of hearts of palm.

Haha see January 2014...towards the end of the month.  I'll always remember that month as the most frustrated I've been in a long time.  We all have those periods.  Like Feb 2012 thread is it for many in SNE if you read that one.  Everyone goes off the rails a bit at some point.

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3 hours ago, Damage In Tolland said:

I wasn't even trying to upset anyone. We've had this discussion on here before about raditional cold not necessarily being real. In fact, Scooter was involved. I guess my point was it is a real temperature just like his example of dews are real. But I don't agree it has to be in a cool airmass. There are many examples of nights that they decouple and let's say it's 55 there , but 65 in the hills.

Yeah but it's all built into normals.  If TAN radiates really well as an ASOS that's built into its normals.  It's not like an AN airmass is all the sudden going to be BN because they radiate. Same for anywhere.

55F vs 65F is a relatively normal summer airmass for valleys vs hills.  But if it's 35F vs 45F it has to be a colder airmass than the one that does 55F and 65F.  Up here my average min never goes above 55F, whereas at the office at 1,500ft the normal is probably more like 60F for a low.  

It's not fake it's just how the atmosphere works.  Cold pools in the valleys at night and then mixes out during the day so you have wider ranges than the summits.  

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Code for weather that drives people to 'straight jacket rocker in a padded cell' ennui ... 

that ridge doesn't mean much else... once you get past mid September record breaking warm means delayed autumn and not much more.  it really is find a new hobby .. there's that, and, we've seen 20 ridges since may 15 like that, and virtually all of them fell well short of their potential. 

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17 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

 

Code for weather that drives people to 'straight jacket rocker in a padded cell' ennui ... 

that ridge doesn't mean much else... once you get past mid September record breaking warm means delayed autumn and not much more.  it really is find a new hobby .. there's that, and, we've seen 20 ridges since may 15 like that, and virtually all of them fell well short of their potential. 

lol... but it is fantastic for being out-of-doors as boring as it is.  Take a hike, walk 18, play some pick-up bball, yard work or outdoor projects around the house you didn't want to do in the August HHH.

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Seems like Septembers have been above normal lately. I crunched some numbers, and the 14 Septembers from 2002 onward have broken down like this at the major climo sites in New England:

 

BDL: 11 above, 3 below, 0 exactly normal (6 well above, 0 well below)

BDR: 11 above, 3 below, 0 exactly normal (5 well above, 0 well below)

BGR: 10 above, 3 below, 1 exactly normal (6 well above, 0 well below)

BOS: 10 above, 4 below, 0 exactly normal (6 well above, 0 well below)

BTV: 11 above, 3 below, 0 exactly normal (7 well above, 0 well below)

CAR: 11 above, 3 below, 0 exactly normal (5 well above, 0 well below)

CON: 10 above, 4 below, 0 exactly normal (5 well above, 1 well below)

ORH: 11 above, 3 below, 0 exactly normal (7 well above, 0 well below)

PVD: 10 above, 4 below, 0 exactly normal (6 well above, 0 well below)

PWM: 10 above, 3 below, 1 exactly normal (5 well above, 0 well below)

 

I defined well above/below as a departure of 2+ degrees. I chose 2002 as the starting year because prior to that the previous 14 Septembers had statistics similar to the above in the opposite direction.

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2 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

You would think those peaceful people in VT wouldn't react so violently. 

Love the passion from skivt2...but her permanent residence is in New York I think (joking skivt, anyone who loves skiing is a true friend).  I'm from ALB area, but over a decade in VT will chill you out and appreciate the landscape.  There are a lot of parts of NY that are like VT, but the Hudson Valley is not one of them. Growing up there makes me feel like I'm allowed to say that, haha.

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