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July 2016 Discussions/Observations

Rtd208

By Rtd208,
in New York City Metro

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bluewave

bluewave

Posted
Posted

Central Park would be a few degrees warmer if all that vegetation wasn't covering the sensor.

The Wall Street Heliport is getting a light breeze off the Harbor and is still warmer.

 

Central Park MOSUNNY 90 66 45 VRB5 29.86F HX 92
LaGuardia APRT PTSUNNY 92 62 36 CALM 29.83F HX 92
Kennedy INTL MOSUNNY 87 66 49 S15 29.86F
Newark Liberty PTSUNNY 95 62 33 W8G17 29.83F HX 96
Teteboro APRT MOSUNNY 92 62 36 VRB6G17 29.82F HX 92
BNX BOT. GARD. N/A 90 63 40 NW2 29.87R HX 90
Wall St Helipt PTCLDY 91 64 40 SW6 29.86S HX 93

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Isotherm

Isotherm

Posted
Posted

Central Park would be a few degrees warmer if all that vegetation wasn't covering the sensor.

The Wall Street Heliport is getting a light breeze off the Harbor and is still warmer.

 

Central Park MOSUNNY 90 66 45 VRB5 29.86F HX 92

LaGuardia APRT PTSUNNY 92 62 36 CALM 29.83F HX 92

Kennedy INTL MOSUNNY 87 66 49 S15 29.86F

Newark Liberty PTSUNNY 95 62 33 W8G17 29.83F HX 96

Teteboro APRT MOSUNNY 92 62 36 VRB6G17 29.82F HX 92

BNX BOT. GARD. N/A 90 63 40 NW2 29.87R HX 90

Wall St Helipt PTCLDY 91 64 40 SW6 29.86S HX 93

 

 

This question has probably been addressed ad nauseam; we complain about the sensor every summer, but has anyone taken the next step and written letters to the NWS regarding this issue? Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it that they're aware, but they're precluded from cutting the vegetation (not their jurisdiction)? However, I would think we'd have a more than sufficient argument to present to whoever makes those decisions -- namely that NYC's climate record is being inaccurately represented by these readings due to the cooling influence of the immediate surrounding vegetation. In particular are the days that should have been 90F readings, but are now recorded in the 80s. I must say, for one of (arguably) the most important climate data locations in the world, they certainly don't seem to care a whole lot. One would think they'd want to take the necessary steps to correct it. But, I guess until that time, we must suffer with these issues...

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bluewave

bluewave

Posted
Posted

This question has probably been addressed ad nauseam; we complain about the sensor every summer, but has anyone taken the next step and written letters to the NWS regarding this issue? Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it that they're aware, but they're precluded from cutting the vegetation (not their jurisdiction)? However, I would think we'd have a more than sufficient argument to present to whoever makes those decisions -- namely that NYC's climate record is being inaccurately represented by these readings due to the cooling influence of the immediate surrounding vegetation. In particular are the days that should have been 90F readings, but are now recorded in the 80s. I must say, for one of (arguably) the most important climate data locations in the world, they certainly don't seem to care a whole lot. One would think they'd want to take the necessary steps to correct it. But, I guess until that time, we must suffer with these issues...

 

I think that the trimming back of the vegetation is outside their jurisdiction. The previous OKX MIC was well aware

of the issue back in 2003.

Central Park Weather: Vegetative Overgrowth Affecting Weather Readings - WABC-TV(New York-WABC, August 22, 2003) - Forecasting the weather is not easy.Government equipment can often be blamed for giving faulty weatherinformation. As Bill Evans explains, a big culprit may be some of theequipment buried in Central Park.Rainfall, snowfall, and the temperature are all vital informationrecorded 24 hours a day at the weather station located in the heart ofCentral Park.But meteorologists like Michael Schlacter have serious concerns about theaccuracy of the stations data. It sits amid overgrown vegetation and hesays thats the problem. The leaves can trigger snow gauges and trees canwarp rain and wind measurements. On this hot day, a temperature gauge isin the shade instead of direct sunlight.Michael Schlacter, Weather 2000: "Its kind of like driving a carwithout a speedometer, odometer, and gas gauge. You are running withfalse information."The weather instruments at Belvedere Castle have long adorned the top.There used to be a government meteorologist here in the city to keep aneye on them. But now the nearest meteorologist is 60 miles that way.But National Weather Service meteorologists say they knew the weatherreadings in the park would never be as keenly accurate as the ones atthe airports where guidelines prevent foliage from being within 100 feetof the station.Schlacter: "We knew that at times we would have flaky readings, thatleaves would fall in gauges, that we would have problems withvisibility sensors."[NWS Meteorologist-in-Charge Michael] Wyllie says the weather station isthere because it was historically significant to maintain its presencein the park.He says theres been a lot of growth because of the wet spring at so muchin fact that temperatures have routinely been recorded lower in the parkthan at the airports.Wyllie: "We are actually having a micro climate system there because ofthe vegetation."Imperfect perhaps but nonetheless the system provides the official recordof weather for the country's largest city. And Michael Schlacter saysits a city that deserves better.Schlacter: "I think New Yorkers deserve a lot better, and I think theydeserve the best weather station money can buy."Copyright 2003 ABC Inc., WABC-TV Inc.
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dWave

dWave

Posted
Posted

This question has probably been addressed ad nauseam; we complain about the sensor every summer, but has anyone taken the next step and written letters to the NWS regarding this issue? Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it that they're aware, but they're precluded from cutting the vegetation (not their jurisdiction)? However, I would think we'd have a more than sufficient argument to present to whoever makes those decisions -- namely that NYC's climate record is being inaccurately represented by these readings due to the cooling influence of the immediate surrounding vegetation. In particular are the days that should have been 90F readings, but are now recorded in the 80s. I must say, for one of (arguably) the most important climate data locations in the world, they certainly don't seem to care a whole lot. One would think they'd want to take the necessary steps to correct it. But, I guess until that time, we must suffer with these issues...

 

I'm sure they are well aware. They have addressed the issue in years past. Their response is basically along these lines:

NYC has various micro climates..sea breezes, UHI, etc. Central Park is just one place and represents the conditions of that place..a wooded city park. It has and will continue to represent the conditions of a park setting, not the middle of Times Square for example. The site is of great historical significance and they have no interest in interrupting 140+ years of record keeping.

I wish I could find the exact quote.

 

I interpret it as...they are saying the problem is with the public and/or media.  They are multiple climate sites and the one most applicable to someones location should be referenced.

I guess its on the media to note conditions of LGA and elsewhere as near or equal importance when appropriate. 

We are the only city I can think of not using an airport as its main climate reporting station.

Maybe I'm wrong but I find the max avg high of 84 in CPK as not a good representation of NYC summers. How can CPK be about the same as JFK?

 

 

My layman suggestion would be for the NWS to offer to pay for the removal of some of the trees surrounding the sensors. In this era of tree planting that would be an unpopular idea so NWS could agree to pay for the replanting of those trees somewhere else in the Park..or anywhere in NYC, whatever works best.

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