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Models Have Us On Northern Edge Of Snow 3/4/16


bluewave

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Well the ggem and now the navgem has folded and both ots

Still a little time to trend better but I think we should watch out for the overrunning. GFS has 1-3 inches, Nam about the same and ggem about 2-4 inch es.

Navgem hasn't finished loading yet.

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The sampling argument is what people use when models don't show a storm. It's over. "Sampling" isn't an actual model issue

When you've modeled a chaotic system, such as the weather, and seen the impact of varying the initial conditions on the model output, then come talk to me.  Until then, I suggest you read more and post less.  Sampling to obtain accurate initial conditions is probably the Achilles Heel of modern meteorological modelng. Also, read up on ensemble forecasting, wherein one runs Monte Carlo method simulations, featuring randomized perturbations of initial conditions to gauge the model sensitivity to those initial conditions - errors in initial conditions, as well as a paucity of high density 3D initial condition data (the usual case when the energy is not over land and out of the radiosonde network) combine to make error bars on model output that become larger and larger as one increments the model forward in time.  All that said, theoretically, the initial condition errors shouldn't be biased in a systemic direction leading to a model output bias, so if most of the models are showing out to sea, that's the smart bet to make (but one which could still be wrong).  

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0z GEFS

2 members hit NYC. 0 on the 18z run :weenie:

 

http://synoptic.envsci.rutgers.edu/dougsimo/GEFSIndiesUSPrecip00096.gif

I think most snow lovers would gladly take 2 or 3 inches of overrunning snow thursday night into friday morning. Hopefully it will work out like NAM and GGEM show. We need one last snow event before the warmth settles in next week, even if it's a light event.

Agree. 2-4 would be nice. It would get me to 40 inches.

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Uptons take:

AT THIS POINT BASED

ON EXPLAINED VARIANCE OF ENSEMBLE MODEL SPREAD THIS APPEARS TO BE A

LOWER PROB SOLUTION...WITH A GREATER PERCENTAGE OF THE MODEL SPREAD

EXPLAINED BY SPEED/TIMING DIFFERENCES. BASED ON THIS...AND

DETERMINISTIC MODEL CLUSTERING...STRONGER SIGNAL AT THIS POINT IS

FOR LOW PRESSURE TO STAY FAR ENOUGH SOUTH OF THE REGION TO BE

AFFECTED BY A PERIOD OF NORTHERN PERIPHERY LIGHT SNOW OR SNOW

SHOWERS WITH LIFT AHEAD OF SHORTWAVE AXIS THU NIGHT INTO FRI AND

GUSTY NE/N WINDS. THE POTENTIAL FOR THE REGION TO BE AFFECTED BY

HEAVIER SNOW BANDING AND STRONGER WIND FIELDS AROUND THE RAPIDLY

DEVELOPING SYSTEM IS LOW AT THIS POINT...

One last snowfall would be nice and I think 1-3" is likely the outcome. I don't see this making a move large enough to give us any more than that. Would be a nice surprise but at this point the least likely outcome.

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Here is the 6z GFS .  84 out . You can see the NEG tilt here starting at 72 , look at the 700 mb field before you look at the precip field .

You would snow if you force that kind of lift all the way back to Buffalo .

 

Look at it` position at 78 off OBX and  then where it is at 84 hours .

 

You will need at about a 100 mile W shift for this become a snowstorm for CNJ/NYC/LI/ECT.

 

Being that we are 84 hours out , I would keep an eye on how far W this continues to come .

 

As it is the 1st SW carries snow throughout the entire area as it comes E throughout the entire area .

 

Then it hands off its energy to a center at OBX . It is at this time you will have to watch to see if E areas can cash in . 

 

f72.gif

 

 

 

f78.gif

 

 

 

f84.gif

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Here are the GFS ensembles over the last 12 hours . At 84 hours these incremental nudges W could add up if they continue . You can see the precip shield respond . ( Still not enough ) .

At some point the W trend will stop .

It will come down to how the models handle the press through the lakes . I don`t expect a huge jump W but maybe just enough for E areas to be effected by this .

All areas will snow with the 1st center as it will carry it`s snow into the entire area .

gfs-ens_apcpn24_us_16.png

gfs-ens_apcpn24_us_18.png

gfs-ens_mslpa_us_15.png

gfs-ens_mslpa_us_17.png

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I saw that Paul, Navgem definitely came back NW. I wouldn't be surprised to see a solution somewhere in the middle of all the current guidance. Seems the Euro is on the southern side now.

 

JC I think the first SW carries S all the way through  2 to 4 ish . ( last nights UKMET at 72 precip maps show it ) . Then at OBX is it NE or ENE  ? . I am not sure yet . I like that the GEFS has now bumped the .5 line to the Jersey shore at 6z . Another 75 miles W and it`s a warning level event of L I .

 

The 4k NAM may be too strong and the Euro too weak . So I agree with you the middle ground is prob a good bet .

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The more intense the system it is the more wrapped up it will be so therefore if you're trying to get the precip shield further NW you should probably root for a weaker system initially.

It's a bit of a catch 22 with that.

I'll be perfectly honest, I wanted this thing to boot east as quick as possible to make room for the clipper. But that looks to be squashed now.

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I like that the GEFS has now bumped the .5 line to the Jersey shore at 6z .

I think that is probably a function of the overrunning. Still a handful of members at 0z that didn't have it. So that could be a good sign down here, might not do much up by me or in the northern OKX zones.

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It's a bit of a catch 22 with that.

I'll be perfectly honest, I wanted this thing to boot east as quick as possible to make room for the clipper. But that looks to be squashed now.

Clippers very rarely perform well here. Most of the time they are moisture starved until they get off the NJ coast and by then the best forcing is moving offshore with it.

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You know its bad when people are using the navgem, jma, kma, and nam at 84 hours to make arguments that somehow this is trending towards a more favorable solution. I would add to the circus with the CRAS except it's a fairly flat wave that goes from SC to Bermuda with the precip shield staying well S and E.

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You know its bad when people are using the navgem, jma, kma, and nam at 84 hours to make arguments that somehow this is trending towards a more favorable solution. I would add to the circus with the CRAS except it's a fairly flat wave that goes from SC to Bermuda with the precip shield staying well S and E.

Dude you 're being a child. The GEFS is 2 to 4. You're not getting a big wrapped up coastal.

Your snow will come via the 1st piece. Only LI should be watching the coastal.

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The current model consensus has the storm tomorrow doing too good a job of

suppressing the WAR. It becomes a strong 50/50 so the confluence remains

strong over the Northeast. We need an under 72 hr weaker 50/50 and stronger

WAR than forecast to allow a further NW track with the 3/4-3/5 storm. But

not enough separation between storms has messed things up in the past.

At least we finally got something forced under instead of another cutter.

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