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Late Feb/March Med/Long Range Discussion


WinterWxLuvr

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CMC ensembles have a good look @500's and would take it any day irregardless of what the surface reflection may have. Has the trough neutral on the Mississippi and has good ridging to the west. GEFS on the other hand continues to set up the trough to far east and the broad ridging in the west is just shunting this all OTS.  

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After doing it so long I am used to it. Complete opposite of when I was younger and would be going to bed at 3am after hitting the clubs. Funny what getting older does to you.

If you can do it more power to you. Plus I know no matter how early i get up i can read your ensemble recap :) .
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The EPS would look very good if it weren't for the fact the trough is going neutral a little farther east then I would like to see. Hopefully just noise and not a trend. Mean track has shifted a little south and then east of the region in response to the troughs change. Snowfall mean has decreased quite a bit from the 12Z run and looking at the qpf maps the central MD region is fairly dry while the eastern shore still picks up good rates suggesting we are now on the outer fringes of the system.

 

Edit: Not sure I would be concerned about the mean snowfall at this time. With the 00Z runs coming in dryer for some reason and with the Euro's habit of underplaying the precip field in the mid range I think these argue that we would see a better result then we now see. The track is decent and as long as the low doesn't lolly gag on intensifying we should be fine with this setup.

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The EPS would look very good if it weren't for the fact the trough is going neutral a little farther east then I would like to see. Hopefully just noise and not a trend. Mean track has shifted a little south and then east of the region in response to the troughs change. Snowfall mean has decreased quite a bit from the 12Z run and looking at the qpf maps the central MD region is fairly dry while the eastern shore still picks up good rates suggesting we are now on the outer fringes of the system.

Glancing at the individual members, seems they range from an all out miss, to a hit but too warm(or weak so rain), to some nice snow hits for the ones that have a good track and stronger low. Not great consensus and not a very strong signal for a snowstorm for our area at this point.

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After looking over the ensembles am still fairly optimistic.

 

Glancing at the individual members, seems they range from an all out miss, to a hit but too warm(or weak so rain), to some nice snow hits for the ones that have a good track and stronger low. Not great consensus and not a very strong signal for a snowstorm for our area at this point.

Doesn't surprise me. This setup isn't as cut and dry as I would like to see. Just subtle changes on some of the key features can really change things.

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After looking over the ensembles am still fairly optimistic.

 

Doesn't surprise me. This setup isn't as cut and dry as I would like to see. Just subtle changes on some of the key features can really change things.

Its rarely cut and dry when it comes to snow in these parts :P

 

Always issues to be resolved. The models and run to run variability with each cycle are indicative of struggling with resolving spacing between this storm and the previous one-so how much this one can develop and how soon, how much confluence will there be and where, and just how cold it actually gets(which would largely depend on track and strength of the low). So if you look at the 3 op runs at 0z- GFS, EURO, CMC, it runs the gamut from completely crushed, to major snowstorm, to warmish and rainy.

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Its rarely cut and dry when i comes to snow in these parts :P

 

Always issues to be resolved. The models and run to run variability with each cycle are indicative of struggling with resolving spacing between this storm and the previous one-so how much this one can develop and how soon, how much confluence will there be and where, and just how cold it actually gets(which would largely depend on track and strength of the low). So if you look at the 3 op runs at 0z- GFS, EURO, CMC, it runs the gamut from completely crushed, to major snowstorm, to warmish and rainy.

Know I have been harping on this, and will apologize for bringing it up again, but I really think the key will be the trough axis and where it goes neutral. All three models have been fairly consistent for the last few runs and are very similar @ 500's with the exception that the GEFS has been taking the trough neutral 100-200 miles (if that far) further east on the runs. That's why I found it a little troubling to see the Euro move slightly to the east. 

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Interesting snippet from the Mount Holly morning AFD-

 

THURSDAY NIGHT THRU SATURDAY...CONSIDERABLE UNCERTAINTY GIVEN
SHORTWAVE ENERGY IS STILL OVER THE CENTRAL PACIFIC. IN VERY GENERAL
TERMS, THE SIGNAL IS THERE FOR DOWNSTREAM DEVELOPMENT, I.E., EAST
COAST CYCLOGENSIS, GIVEN AMPLIFICATION OF THE WEST COAST RIDGE, AND
A CLOSED LOW OVER LABRADOR. SO THE SETUP IS THERE, BUT IT/S STILL
TOO EARLY TO PIN DOWN THE TRACK AND INTENSITY OF THIS POTENTIALLY
IMPACTFUL SYSTEM. WHILE WE FEEL THE GFS/UKMET ARE TOO SUPPRESSED DUE
TO EMPHASIS ON SOUTHERN STREAM ENERGY, AND THE ECMWF SOLUTION MORE
PLAUSIBLE, IT/S STILL TOO EARLY TO HANG OUR HAT ON ANY SOLUTION.
THERE IS A LACK OF HIGH-LATITUDE BLOCKING, AND THIS IS EVIDENT IN
THE LABRADOR LOW QUICKLY LIFTING NORTHEASTWARD THURSDAY NIGHT,
INDICATIVE OF A PROGRESSIVE SYSTEM. THIS ALSO SUGGESTS THAT PHASING
OF THE NORTHERN AND SOUTHERN STREAMS WILL TAKE PLACE TOO LATE, I.E.,
JUST OFFSHORE, WHICH DOES NOT FAVOR A PROLONGED EAST COAST STORM.

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06Z gfs is ugly. Did notice that the 00z para GFS is much different then the original. Through goes neutral around the Mississippi and we then see a low form farther north around southern Ohio that then rides just underneath our region. Quick glance but it shows roughly a half inch for the region and temps may be marginal for our southern region.

 

Not much change with the GEFS. Still looks bad.

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The euro was great but other then the op euro the 0z was a pretty bad cycle of guidance. I don't really buy the gfs idea of totally squashing this although the uk going that way was bothersome. However the eps shows a lot of good tracks that don't produce because the system is just weak and disorganized. .3 qpf over 12 hours isn't going to cut it in March. We are still at a range that it's ok to need some adjustment in the consensus but we're getting close to where I want to see a move towards a more amplified system in the next few runs. Usually a gfs ec compromise 60/40 ec weighted is the way to go here. That's not good for us in this situation so hope to see the gfs start to come around soon. I'm still think we see a big stj system bowl across under us mid March but it may be too late to get frozen.

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The euro was great but other then the op euro the 0z was a pretty bad cycle of guidance. I don't really buy the gfs idea of totally squashing this although the uk going that way was bothersome. However the eps shows a lot of good tracks that don't produce because the system is just weak and disorganized. .3 qpf over 12 hours isn't going to cut it in March. We are still at a range that it's ok to need some adjustment in the consensus but we're getting close to where I want to see a move towards a more amplified system in the next few runs. Usually a gfs ec compromise 60/40 ec weighted is the way to go here. That's not good for us in this situation so hope to see the gfs start to come around soon. I'm still think we see a big stj system bowl across under us mid March but it may be too late to get frozen.

To me it is tonight's runs that usually give hints to the trend. At least in the last few threats at 4 days we knew there were real problems.

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GFS does not make much sense, and I will be very surprised if it does not move more towards a Euro/CMC look with a clipper type surface low sliding just to our south in the next few cycles. It will catch on eventually. The biggest question is the exact track and strength of the low, because there will be some pretty cold air available.

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the gfs is really squashing it. The difference between the gfs/uk and the ggem/ec is the gfs is hanging the stj energy back a bit and the northern stream vort gets out ahead and that out of sync interaction totally squashed it. The stj misses it's boat so to speak then is just left behind. The ec phases the two. i have no idea which is right. I don't mind one model that way. Or for the consensus to be a miss to our south. But id rather the miss be where southern va gets it not the thing is squashed to nothing. Yes there has been a north trend all year but let's be realistic that north trend was moderate not extreme. We don't want to be needing a 250 mile trend or worse needing the storm to be 10 mb stronger in the short term. A 75 mile move or 5 mb change is more realistic. So as today's runs come out I won't be upset with a miss but I want to see a decent system at least within reasonable distance. A big hit to Richmond as a consensus of the runs would be ideal for our area right now. If all of today's runs start to show a totally squashed system like the gfs then we are in trouble.

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Hmmm, 6 z Para GFS versus the Euro .

 

I would think if today's 12z Euro run holds course the event becomes more likely.  Hopefully, the higher scoring Euro is seeing things better than either GFS model at this range. The event is coming at an interesting time with the pulse down of the AO as well.  

 

As for the Euro, it has been relatively firm in its depictions, give or take some movement.

 

The other option is a massive change in the Euro out to sea, and or much weaker.  

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