Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,618
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    RyRyB
    Newest Member
    RyRyB
    Joined

Feb 15-16 Possible Mixed Event.


lilj4425

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 2.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

In some ways this system reminds me of the january 22-23rd ice storm of 2000...except conditions with that one were not ideal either. The departing high was much weaker, worse position and  progressive...This high was only around 1025 to 1030mb and already moving had moved off shore the mid atlantic by the time precip arrived. (so winds were pretty light at the surface out of the NE),  850mb temps started similar to this one with 0c moving from ga to the nc/va border by the time it was over while warming to 6 to 8c over north ga by 12z of the 23rd,  925 mb temps went from 0c in ne ga  when the precip started to several degrees above freezing overnight,  and the precip didn't start until early to mid afternoon here in georgia. After morning lows around 29 to 31, the late arrival of precip allowed temps to warm into the mid to upper 30s...and dewpoints has risen into the teens after being in single digits earlier. But Despite what is less than ideal conditions there still was  major ice accumulations across north ga, causing hundreds of thousands of power outages, and a lot of egg on a lot of local mets faces.

 

With this system, **assuming we don't see a gfs/euro like track and timing** we have a much stronger high initially, better arrival time of precip, if it starts as early as the canadian, nam, french, and jma, we will have colder surface temps/wetbulbs at the start of it, and just like the 2000 storm precip will cool down the interior carolinas at the same time as north ga..thus helping to maintain easterly flow and causing the cold pool to be even more stubborn to dislodge or warm up. Again though if things played out with timing and surface low track like the 06z gfs, cooling/damming will be much less.

 

One other thing to note is the gfs dewpoints. For whatever reason, the gfs warms dewpoints into the 20s over north ga/upstate by 12z despite no precip or response in dry air temperature.  No other model is showing such a big rise in dewpoints without precip already starting.  So  that is something those should keep in mind when looking at the gfs as this obviously would mean much less evap cooling potential and would greatly reduce the cooling potential.

 

Very good post and definitely some key things to watch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In some ways this system reminds me of the january 22-23rd ice storm of 2000...except conditions with that one were not ideal either. The departing high was much weaker, worse position and  progressive...The 2000 high was only around 1025 to 1030mb and already was moving/ had moved off shore the mid atlantic by the time precip arrived. (so winds were pretty light at the surface out of the NE),  850mb temps started similar to this one with 0c moving from ga to the nc/va border by the time it was over while warming to 6 to 8c over north ga by 12z of the 23rd,  925 mb temps went from 0c in ne ga  when the precip started to several degrees above freezing overnight,  and the precip didn't start until early to mid afternoon here in georgia. After morning lows around 29 to 31, the late arrival of precip allowed temps to warm into the mid to upper 30s...and dewpoints has risen into the teens after being in single digits earlier. But Despite what is less than ideal conditions there still was  major ice accumulations across north ga, causing hundreds of thousands of power outages, and a lot of egg on a lot of local mets faces.

 

With this system, **assuming we don't see a gfs like track and timing** we have a much stronger high initially, better arrival time of precip, if it starts as early as the canadian, nam, french, and jma, we will have colder surface temps/wetbulbs at the start of it, and just like the 2000 storm precip will cool down the interior carolinas at the same time as north ga..thus helping to maintain easterly flow and causing the cold pool to be even more stubborn to dislodge or warm up. Again though if things played out with timing and surface low track like the 06z gfs, cooling/damming will be much less.

 

One other thing to note is the gfs dewpoints. For whatever reason, the gfs warms dewpoints into the 20s over north ga/upstate by 12z despite no precip or response in dry air temperature.  No other model is showing such a big rise in dewpoints without precip already starting.  So  that is something those should keep in mind when looking at the gfs as this obviously would mean much less evap cooling potential and would greatly reduce the cooling potential.

 

Not the same really. In that case the surface high was much more locked into the east by a vortex in the Maritimes, not retreating way offshore like this one will be.

post-357-0-92263400-1455293109_thumb.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Put me in the camp of thinking the low will wind up tracking from columbus, Ga, then up I-95.  I just don't see this this thing plowing through the mountains/upstate when that initial finger of precip Monday morning should lock in a strong insitu-wedge, considering the temps/dewpoints.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Put me in the camp of thinking the low will wind up tracking from columbus, Ga, then up I-95. I just don't see this this thing plowing through the mountains/upstate when that initial finger of precip Monday morning should lock in a strong insitu-wedge, considering the temps/dewpoints.

I agree but this will cause for a he$$ of an Ice storm for anyone in the upstate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not the same really. In that case the surface high was much more locked into the east by a vortex in the Maritimes, not retreating way offshore like this one will be.

attachicon.gifScreen Shot 2016-02-12 at 11.01.38 AM.png

 

If you advance in time that vortex rockets north pretty fast, similar to what's progged for Monday.

 

Also, there's been a trend in the modeling to back up a piece of the high into New York state Monday morning. If that can hang on a few more hours, and the wave be just a little bit flatter and thus faster... we would be talking about a lot more ice.

 

Heck, take a look at today... no model really showed any type of high pressure in a CAD position, but if you look at mesoanalysis there is one.

post-309-0-05262000-1455293864_thumb.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone wake Shawn up please up so us SC folks can get an update.

 

Modeling all over the place with temps and track around here.  I am not feeling it for our back yards too much currently.  We need precipitation getting here earlier.  It's a race between the high sliding out and precipitation starting.  Right now, not such good timing if you want ice/sleet.  Those to our North are in a better position.. Upstate, NC, NE GA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

UKIE, Canadian, and Euro will be interesting.  I also wonder if the 12z GEFS starts shifting south.  The modeling I have seen so far today has the HP hanging on a little longer and stronger in the NE.  A couple of small ticks one way or the other with the HP or track of the low is huge in the CAD areas.  More importantly could be where the front end moisture sets up.  That's who will get the jackpot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Still a nasty Ice storm for much of the upstate with maybe a quick inch or two of snow on the front end.

I agree.  Temps are showing at 30 as the precip is starting, raising to 33 before the first 1/2 of QPF.  Then another inch falls with temps raising to just 35.  Assuming the wedge is more tenacious as expected could be a NASTY ice storm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not the same really. In that case the surface high was much more locked into the east by a vortex in the Maritimes, not retreating way offshore like this one will be.

attachicon.gifScreen Shot 2016-02-12 at 11.01.38 AM.png

:huh:

 

 

edited..correction...

 

The parent surface high moved from the ohio valley to off shore the mid atlantic really fast was very weak.  The parent high didn't stay over the mid atlantic/damming position but for around 12 hours.

 

The reason i say this reminds me of this one though is low track, similar temps/dewpoints, there was not a strong flow at the surface with it (winds were only 5 to 10 knots..at most) and a parent high that had already shifted off shore shortly after the arrival of precip..yet thanks to the wedge the high was able to maintain itself over the interior longer and helped the wedge from warming or scouring out as fast. Also to point out that even with less than ideal circumstances, if the air is cold and dry enough it can over come them and the wedge can hold strong.

post-12-0-54921100-1455293887_thumb.gif

post-12-0-89656000-1455293897_thumb.gif

post-12-0-41629000-1455293908_thumb.gif

post-12-0-74862300-1455293919_thumb.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CMC going with a Tom Petty 'won't back down' run.  Wedge holds into SC through the run.  Sfc low from south Bama to Charleston

 

This type of track (IF the precip gets in quickly enough) makes much more sense to me than a low straight through the Piedmont.

 

Is it a reform?  Or a consolidated system that tracks through the south?

 

I'm now dizzy after looking at Lookout's maps!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This type of track (IF the precip gets in quickly enough) makes much more sense to me than a low straight through the Piedmont.

The whole handling of the wave is the most important thing IMO.  Euro suite likes the more amped version which puts a whole lot more pressure on the wedge.  The GFS should thrive in this kind of fast flow, multiple vorts scenario.  3 days out still, so plenty of time for changes (good or bad)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...