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Model Mezzanine, the 2nd installment


Typhoon Tip

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Seems a good old fashioned icestorm is a very real possibility for interior areas of SNE . Though it's fairly late in the winter with sun angle issues. I'm sure there's been a few that late, but can't imagine they're all that common.

 

 

I remember a nasty one on Feb 28, 1995 and another on Mar 3-4 (?), 1991....then a pretty good one on Mar 2, 2007....though that was mostly a higher terrain event in ORH county and Monads.

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isn't it harder to get an icestorm from a coastal storm though?

 

the set up of drabble overrunning that accretes forever doesn't really occur in coastals, because vertical integration of the cyclone "tends" to be very warm vs cold sided. 

 

Obviously that is not always true... in 1929 (when I was 10 years old) there was a widespread crippling disaster ice-storm. places had 2 " accretion and more... it's a google-able event.  It was born of a coastal storm.  fascinating

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trust me .. .mid weeks events are more rare   ;)

 

and like I said, it's not a natural law to overcome, but statistics bare that out - 

I recall back at Eastern on the radio shows,  DT was always adamant about the immutable Weekend Rule .  I never began to even understood what it was that was behind it.  It doesnt seem logical that the laws of nature give one hoot about Saturday vs Wednesday.  And yet, the statistics are undeniable..  Its a real head scratcher.

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isn't it harder to get an icestorm from a coastal storm though?

the set up of drabble overrunning that accretes forever doesn't really occur in coastals, because vertical integration of the cyclone "tends" to be very warm vs cold sided.

Obviously that is not always true... in 1929 (when I was 10 years old) there was a widespread crippling disaster ice-storm. places had 2 " accretion and more... it's a google-able event. It was born of a coastal storm. fascinating

The big 2008 ORH icestorm was a coastal.
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isn't it harder to get an icestorm from a coastal storm though?

 

the set up of drabble overrunning that accretes forever doesn't really occur in coastals, because vertical integration of the cyclone "tends" to be very warm vs cold sided. 

 

Obviously that is not always true... in 1929 (when I was 10 years old) there was a widespread crippling disaster ice-storm. places had 2 " accretion and more... it's a google-able event.  It was born of a coastal storm.  fascinating

 

I would say this type of modeled evolution would be the way to do it, with a warm front draped along the coast well ahead of the low center itself.

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I recall back at Eastern on the radio shows,  DT was always adamant about the immutable Weekend Rule .  I never began to even understood what it was that was behind it.  It doesnt seem logical that the laws of nature give one hoot about Saturday vs Wednesday.  And yet, the statistics are undeniable..  Its a real head scratcher.

And then Tuesday Jan 27th 2015 walked in our door

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I recall back at Eastern on the radio shows,  DT was always adamant about the immutable Weekend Rule .  I never began to even understood what it was that was behind it.  It doesnt seem logical that the laws of nature give one hoot about Saturday vs Wednesday.  And yet, the statistics are undeniable..  Its a real head scratcher.

 

well i did offer a plausible part-n-parcel explanation.  

 

again ... there is literature out there about all precipitation events at all scales getting a boost toward week's end by pollution. industrial endeavors means aerosols and particulate counts are higher on thu-sun, then they are mid weeks; considering lag from the previous week.  

 

more efficient condensate means more latent heat release, which can have an impact on cyclone morphology and intensity when feeding that flux back into the system.  

 

i've read this before in theoretical tenths but i am unsure if that science was ever advanced. 

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Some sage words from BTV:

 

LOOKING OUT TOWARDS NEXT WEEK, HIGH PRESSURE BUILDS INTO THE REGION
AGAIN FOR MONDAY NIGHT AND TUESDAY, BUT ONCE AGAIN MODELS ARE DEPICTING
SOME SORT OF SYSTEM DEVELOPING TUESDAY ACROSS THE SOUTHEAST AND
NORTHEAST ALONG THE COAST TUESDAY NIGHT INTO WEDNESDAY. IT SEEMS
EVERY WEEK GUIDANCE HAS A COASTAL OUT ON DAY 6- 7, SOME OF WHICH
HAS PANNED OUT, MOST HAVE NOT. IN FACT, THE ENERGY ALOFT ASSOCIATED
WITH THIS SYSTEM DOESN`T EVEN COME ONTO THE PACIFIC COAST UNTIL
MONDAY, SO WE LIKELY WON`T HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT HAPPENS WITH THIS
UNTIL MAYBE LATE WEEKEND. STAY TUNED.

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I remember a nasty one on Feb 28, 1995 and another on Mar 3-4 (?), 1991....then a pretty good one on Mar 2, 2007....though that was mostly a higher terrain event in ORH county and Monads.

 

Had a moderate ice storm in NNJ March 6-7, 1967, about 1/3" accretion atop 3" new snow.  IIRC, Boston got 10-12" snow out of it.  I think that's the latest in the season I've seen significant icing.

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Some sage words from BTV:

 

LOOKING OUT TOWARDS NEXT WEEK, HIGH PRESSURE BUILDS INTO THE REGION

AGAIN FOR MONDAY NIGHT AND TUESDAY, BUT ONCE AGAIN MODELS ARE DEPICTING

SOME SORT OF SYSTEM DEVELOPING TUESDAY ACROSS THE SOUTHEAST AND

NORTHEAST ALONG THE COAST TUESDAY NIGHT INTO WEDNESDAY. IT SEEMS

EVERY WEEK GUIDANCE HAS A COASTAL OUT ON DAY 6- 7, SOME OF WHICH

HAS PANNED OUT, MOST HAVE NOT. IN FACT, THE ENERGY ALOFT ASSOCIATED

WITH THIS SYSTEM DOESN`T EVEN COME ONTO THE PACIFIC COAST UNTIL

MONDAY, SO WE LIKELY WON`T HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT HAPPENS WITH THIS

UNTIL MAYBE LATE WEEKEND. STAY TUNED.

 

Sounds like they're ready to connect the tailpipe to the WFO ventilation system.

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Well, at this point, nearly in March, its time to call a spade a spade.

Not much has worked out because this winter has blown dead rats.

 

I mean I get it, but that's a little Cartman-esque "screw you guys, I'm going home"

 

Whether they like it or not our job is to forecast the weather, good and bad, we can't just throw our hands up and say "we won't know anything until the system is sampled again on the West Coast."

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I mean I get it, but that's a little Cartman-esque "screw you guys, I'm going home"

 

Whether they like it or not our job is to forecast the weather, good and bad, we can't just throw our hands up and say "we won't know anything until the system is sampled again on the West Coast."

I don't see the big deal with displaying some skepticism at extended leads out of deference to the seasonal tenor.

I mean, this is the time of the year you do that......its been months, so we have an idea of what to expect.

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Well, at this point, nearly in March, its time to call a spade a spade.

Not much has worked out because this winter has blown dead rats.

Agreed. But....does past performance have any bearing on future events?

I'd wager quite a bit, but not lockstep. Each of this winter's events has been surrounded by some other bizarre way to deny many in NE the goods. The curiosity is more in determining which type of poison we will be injected with next

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I recall back at Eastern on the radio shows, DT was always adamant about the immutable Weekend Rule . I never began to even understood what it was that was behind it. It doesnt seem logical that the laws of nature give one hoot about Saturday vs Wednesday. And yet, the statistics are undeniable.. Its a real head scratcher.

Ginxy already beat me to it. I was curious after Tip's post, and subsequently looked up the days of the week where the most extreme winter storm events struck NE. While most have occured on a weekend, some of the most intense have not. As Ginxy noted, the blizzards of 1978 and 2015 being most notable.

Here are helpful links for this research:

http://www.dayoftheweek.org/?m=January&d=27&y=2015&go=Go#axzz40SisZR3A

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/snow-and-ice/rsi/nesis

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Awful BTV discussion. You'd think the office was run by Eyewall.

Sorry they didn't stroke your snow-shaft......but at 6 days out in a season which has found reason to fail at least excuse imaginable, I have no problem with that.

They basically said "check back later"...what is the big deal?

 

They didn't rule it out....

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Agreed. But....does past performance have any bearing on future events?

I'd wager quite a bit, but not lockstep. Each of this winter's events has been surrounded by some other bizarre way to deny many in NE the goods. The curiosity is more in determining which type of poison we will be injected with next

Seasons absolutely develop tendencies, as patterns often repeat.

Is it absolute, of  course not....but I think it is ok to hedge in that direction all else being equal.

 

Maybe its just me, but I like when a forecasters strays from the normal robotic nature of AFDs, and adds a little a subjective, human element. 

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