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2/9-2/10 Inverted Trough/Mini-Coastal Storm


Zelocita Weather

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fwiw... this is prob what psv was seeing with regards to the precip shield shifting west a bit... But getting back to reality, I'm inclined to weigh the meso's over the globals based on recent performance. Let's see what the 0z suite holds.

That lightest green those maps show, is not precip that would be making it to ground

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noruln trough on the GFS in 3-5 north. central Jersey and philly area 8-15 on the GFS

If we get some snowpack, temps will be brutal

We'll see if we can get any negative temperatures North and West. I probably won't beat my record low last year, but it will be downright cold nonetheless.

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I know the expressions been beat into the ground, but this will 100% be a nowcast radar watching event... Some will cash in with warning snows for sure IMO, no way us, or the models nail this down ahead of time

I think there is a better chance this ends up more like a true coastal low than a norlun event, it won't really take that much of a change

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The west shift people saw was the snow from a subtle lead vort in the main approaching upper wave from the west semi interacting with the coastal and or producing some light snow on its own. We have seen that occur before, most notably with 12/20/95 as the system pulled out and 12/2004

Both decent storms no? And I remember 12/04 catching a lot of us off guard.

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I think there is a better chance this ends up more like a true coastal low than a norlun event, it won't really take that much of a change

 

 

Almost every model takes the storm well east to not impact 80 % of this portal currently.

 

Norlun event with the upper level low dropping down has been there for days.

 

It will snow next week for sure. 

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Discussion containing changed information from previous version are highlighted. --

956

FXUS61 KOKX 062104

AFDOKX

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY

404 PM EST SAT FEB 6 2016

.SYNOPSIS...

-- Changed Discussion --

HIGH PRESSURE REMAINS OVER THE REGION THROUGH SUNDAY.

INTENSIFYING LOW PRESSURE ALONG THE SOUTHEAST US COAST WILL TRACK

NORTHEAST...MOVING SOUTHEAST OF THE REGION SUNDAY NIGHT INTO

MONDAY. AN ACTIVE WINTER PATTERN WILL CONTINUE THROUGH MUCH OF

NEXT WEEK AS SEVERAL WAVES OF LOW PRESSURE MAY IMPACT THE REGION.

HIGH PRESSURE MAY RETURN AT THE END OF THE WEEK.

-- End Changed Discussion --

&&

.NEAR TERM /THROUGH SUNDAY/...

TRANQUIL CONDITIONS TODAY AS HIGH PRESSURE SETTLES IN JUST TO OUR

SOUTH.

A FILTERED SUNSHINE THROUGH HIGH CLOUDS AND WEAK WAA ON SW WINDS

WILL HELP TEMPS RISE CLOSE TO SEASONAL NORMS.

&&

.SHORT TERM /SUNDAY NIGHT THROUGH MONDAY/...

-- Changed Discussion --

SPLIT FLOW WITH MODEL IN GENERAL AGREEMENT WITH A CLOSED UPPER LOW

OFF THE SE US COAST SUN EVENING PIVOTING NE SUN NIGHT TO SE OF THE

40/70 BENCHMARK MONDAY MORNING. MEANWHILE A SECOND LARGER CLOSED LOW

DEVELOPING LOW DIGS INTO THE EASTERN 1/2 OF THE COUNTRY THROUGH THE

GREAT LAKES SUNDAY NIGHT INTO MONDAY.

THE INTERACTION BETWEEN THESE TWO SYSTEMS CONTINUES TO RESULT IN

SUBTLE DIFFERENCES (150 MILE SPREAD) IN TRACK OF AN INTENSIFYING LOW

PRESSURE SYSTEM AS IT MOVES FROM OFF THE NC COAST SUN EVENING AND

THEN SE OF THE 40/70 LAT/LON BENCHMARK ON MONDAY. THIS IS

ACCENTUATING DIFFERENCES IN THE WESTERN EXTENT OF THE DEFORMATION

BANDING AND PRECIP SHIELD...WITH SNOWFALL VARYING ANYWHERE FROM A

TRACE TO INCH FROM W TO E (GFS/ECMWF)...OR TRACE TO 2 INCHES WEST

TO 2 TO 4 INCHES EAST (GEM/NAM). OVERALL...A SLIGHT EASTWARD AND

DRIER TREND HAS BEEN NOTED WITH THE 12Z GUIDANCE VERSUS 00Z.

IN TERMS OF ENSEMBLES...WESTERN LYING 15Z SREF MEAN IS HOLDING

FIRM WITH AROUND 1/2 TO 1 INCH QPF ACROSS THE REGION WITH MEAN

LYING IN THE MIDDLE OF A TRI- MODAL PATTERN. MEANWHILE 12Z GEFS

HAS MEAN OF .05 TO .1 INCH QPF AREAWIDE...WHICH IS BETWEEN THE

STRONG CLUSTERING AROUND THE OPERATIONAL GFS OF ONLY A FEW

HUNDREDTHS OF AN INCH AREA WIDE...TO A HANDFUL OF MEMBERS WITH

1/4 TO 1/2 INCH QPF.

00Z AND 12Z SBU ENSEMBLE SENSITIVITY INDICATING ENSEMBLE SPREAD

IS ON THE NW SIDE OF THE GEFS/ECMWF/CMC ENSEMBLE MEANS FOR THE

LOW TRACK...WITH SENSITIVITY LYING IN THE STRENGTH AND

INTERACTION OF THE AFORE MENTIONED UPPER LOWS. THIS NW SPREAD

PATTERN...HAS MANY TIMES FAVORED WESTERN MOST SOLUTIONS OR

WESTWARD TREND IN LOW PRESSURE TRACK.

BASED ON THE ABOVE...HESITANT TO MAKE MANY CHANGES TO THE CURRENT

FORECAST...PARTICULARLY TOWARDS THE DRIER DETERMINISTIC TREND. A

BLEND OF DETERMINISTIC AND ENSEMBLE QPF PROBS INDICATING

INCREASING LIKELIHOOD FOR LIGHT PRECIP TO DEVELOP LATE SUNDAY

NIGHT INTO MONDAY MORNING EAST OF NYC AND HUDSON RIVER. LOWER

PROBS FOR MEASURABLE PRECIP WEST OF THE NYC METRO AND HUDSON

RIVER. PRECIP SHOULD MAINLY BE IN THE FORM OF SNOW...BUT MAY

INITIALLY START AS A MIX WITH RAIN ACROSS EASTERN LI DUE TO WARM

BOUNDARY LAYER.

WILL CONTINUE WITH A GOING FORECAST FOR LATE SUNDAY NIGHT THROUGH

MONDAY WITH...

A LIKELY SCENARIO OF A DUSTING TO COUPLE INCHES ACROSS NYC METRO

AND POINTS WEST AND 2 TO 4 INCHES TOWARDS EASTERN LI AND SE CT.

A CHANCE SCENARIO FOR A WESTWARD SHIFT...AND DOUBLING OF THESE

AMOUNTS.

-- End Changed Discussion --

&&

.LONG TERM /MONDAY NIGHT THROUGH SATURDAY/...

-- Changed Discussion --

CONFIDENCE THIS PERIOD IS LOW AS MODELS AND ENSEMBLES HAVE NOT COME

INTO BETTER AGREEMENT WITH A POTENTIALLY ACTIVE WINTER PATTERN FOR

THE MIDDLE OF NEXT WEEK. INTENSE OFFSHORE LOW WILL CONTINUE MOVING

FURTHER NE AWAY FROM COAST MONDAY NIGHT. RIGHT BEHIND THIS SYSTEM IS

THE CONTINUATION OF A VERY ANOMALOUS PATTERN. BASED ON THE 12Z

GEFS...THE WESTERN NORTH AMERICA RIDGING HEIGHT ANOMALIES ARE

BETWEEN 2 AND 3 SD ABOVE NORMAL. THE LONGWAVE TROUGH DIGGING INTO

THE EASTERN STATES IS BETWEEN 3 AND 4 SD BELOW NORMAL. THIS TYPE OF

PATTERN IS USUALLY CAUSE FOR CONCERN AND MODELS AND ENSEMBLES ARE

SHOWING QUITE A LARGE SPREAD WITH IMPORTANT FEATURES AT THE SURFACE

AND ALOFT. SOME OF THIS COULD BE WITH HOW THEY HANDLE THE FIRST LOW

THAT MOVES AWAY FROM THE COAST MONDAY NIGHT.

MONDAY NIGHT INTO TUESDAY NIGHT...A VERY ENERGETIC LONGWAVE TROUGH

SETS UP OVER THE EASTERN STATES. A PARENT LOW IS PROGGED TO MOVE

ACROSS THE LAKES...TRANSFERRING SOMEWHERE NEAR THE MIDDLE ATLANTIC

COAST. THIS NEW WAVE OF LOW PRESSURE WILL THEN MOVE ENE AWAY FROM

THE COAST TO SOMEWHERE INVOF OF THE 40/70 BENCHMARK. THERE IS A

GENERAL AGREEMENT WITH THIS AMONG THE DETERMINISTIC MODELS...BUT

THEY VARY IN HOW PRECIPITATION IS GENERATED DUE TO PLACEMENT OF

UPPER LEVEL ENERGY AND AMPLITUDE OF THE UPPER LEVEL TROUGH. THEY

SEEM TO BE KEYING ON AN INVERTED TROUGH TYPE SIGNATURE. THE 12Z

GFS/GEFS/CMC/CMC ENSEMBLE SEEM TO HAVE THIS SETTING UP NEAR THE AREA

FOR ACCUMULATING SNOW TUESDAY INTO WEDNESDAY. THE 12Z ECMWF HAS THIS

SETTING UP A BIT FURTHER SOUTH AWAY FROM OUR CWA. THE 15Z SREF MEAN

IS SIMILAR TO THE ECMWF IDEA AS WELL AS THE 12Z NAM. THERE IS QUITE

A BIT OF ENERGY WITHIN THIS TROUGH AND SUBTLE CHANGES COULD MAKE A

DIFFERENCE WHERE BEST LIFT SETS UP. MODELS HAVE ALSO SHOWN PRETTY

DRASTIC CHANGES WITH IMPORTANT DYNAMICS OVER THE LAST FEW

WEEKS...WHICH LEADS TO A LOWER THAN NORMAL CONFIDENCE FOR THIS TIME

PERIOD.

WILL HOLD ONTO LIKELY POPS THROUGH THIS TIME FRAME. FEEL CONTINUITY

IS THE WAY TO GO HERE AND HOPEFULLY AS WE GET CLOSER...WE WILL HAVE

A BETTER IDEA FOR WHERE THE INVERTED TROUGH AND BEST LIFT FROM UPPER

ENERGY WILL SET UP. THE TAKE HOME MESSAGE IS ACCUMULATING LIGHT SNOW

IS POSSIBLE AT SOME POINT MONDAY NIGHT THROUGH TUESDAY NIGHT PERIOD.

WEDNESDAY THROUGH THURSDAY...LOW PRESSURE MOVES FURTHER NE ON

WEDNESDAY...BUT ANOMALOUS TROUGH IS LIKELY TO REMAIN OVERHEAD.

CANNOT RULE OUT LIGHT SNOW WEDNESDAY...BUT FOR NOW IT APPEARS BEST

LIFT SHIFTS EAST OF THE AREA. UPPER TROF AXIS SHIFTS EAST THURSDAY.

POPS TAPER DOWN TO CHANCE WEDNESDAY AND THEN SLIGHT CHANCE ON

THURSDAY.

FRIDAY THROUGH SATURDAY...AN ARCTIC COLD FRONT CROSSES THE REGION

FRIDAY INTO FRIDAY NIGHT AS DEEP UPPER LOW SETS UP ACROSS SOUTHEAST

CANADA. THE FRONT SHOULD MOVE THROUGH DRY AS BEST MOISTURE AXIS HAS

SHIFTED OFFSHORE FROM EARLIER WEEK ACTIVITY. ARCTIC HIGH BUILDS INTO

THE AREA SATURDAY. THE 12Z ECMWF HAS 850 HPA TEMPS DROPPING TO

BETWEEN -22C TO -26C.

FORECAST TEMPERATURES ARE BELOW NORMAL THROUGHOUT THE LONG

TERM...WITH INCREASING PROBABILITY OF A SHOT OF ARCTIC AIR AND WELL

BELOW NORMAL TEMPERATURES AT THE WEEK AND NEXT WEEKEND.

-- End Changed Discussion --

&&

.AVIATION /20Z SATURDAY THROUGH THURSDAY/...

-- Changed Discussion --

HIGH PRES BUILDS OVER THE REGION WILL MOVE OFFSHORE TONIGHT.

VFR THROUGH THE TAF PERIOD. SW WINDS AROUND 10 KT WILL DIMINISH TO

LESS THAN 10 KT THIS EVENING.

.OUTLOOK FOR 21Z SUNDAY THROUGH THURSDAY...

.SUNDAY AFTERNOON...VFR. WINDS 5 KT OR LESS.

.SUNDAY NIGHT THROUGH MONDAY...SUB-VFR POSSIBLE IN -SN...

ESPECIALLY FOR CT AND LONG ISLAND TERMINALS. NE WINDS AROUND 15 KT

WITH GUSTS UP TO 25 KT.

.TUESDAY...SUB-VFR CONDS LIKELY IN SNOW. MIXED PRECIP POSSIBLE

NEAR THE COAST.

.WEDNESDAY THROUGH THURSDAY...SUB-VFR POSSIBLE IN -SN.

-- End Changed Discussion --

&&

.MARINE...

-- Changed Discussion --

SUB-ADVSY CONDS WILL PREVAIL ON ALL WATERS THROUGH SUNDAY WITH HIGH

PRESSURE TO OUR SOUTH. WINDS GUSTS AROUND 20 KT LIKELY THROUGH THIS

EVENING ON THE OCEAN AND EASTERN LI...WITH SEAS BUILDING TO

AROUND 4 FT ON THE EASTERN OCEAN WATERS.

AN AREA OF LOW PRES DEVELOPS OFF THE SE COAST SUNDAY...INTENSIFYING

AS IT TRACKS NE. THE PRES GRADIENT WILL TIGHTEN SUN NIGHT WITH

GALE FORCE WINDS EXPECTED ACROSS CENTRAL AND EASTERN OCEAN WATERS

AFTER MIDNIGHT AND CONTINUING INTO MONDAY. POTENTIAL FOR GALES ON

THE WESTERN OCEAN WATERS AND EASTERN LI SOUND/BAYS. SCA CONDITIONS

EXPECTED ON REMAINDER OF THE WATERS. THERE IS STILL SOME

UNCERTAINTY WITH THE TRACK OF LOW PRESSURE...AND IF IT TRACKS

CLOSER TO THE COAST...THE GALE THREAT WILL MOVE WESTWARD.

SCA IS LIKELY ON MOST WATERS TUESDAY THROUGH THURSDAY AS SEVERAL

WAVES OF LOW PRESSURE ARE FORECAST TO PASS NEAR THE WATERS. WINDS

MAY TEMPORARILY DECREASE TUE NIGHT INTO WEDNESDAY...BUT SEAS ON THE

OCEAN WILL REMAIN ABOVE 5 FT. WINDS THEN INCREASE ABOVE SCA LATE

WEDNESDAY INTO THURSDAY.

-- End Changed Discussion --

&&

.HYDROLOGY...

-- Changed Discussion --

WIDESPREAD LIGHT PRECIPITATION IS LIKELY LATE SUNDAY NIGHT THRU

MON...WITH LOW PROB FOR MODERATE PRECIP. MOST IF NOT ALL OF THE

PCPN THAT FALLS LIKELY TO BE IN THE FORM OF SNOW ATTM.

WIDESPREAD PRECIPITATION IS POSSIBLE MON NIGHT THROUGH TUESDAY

NIGHT. THE PRECIPITATION THAT FALLS SHOULD BE IN THE FORM OF SNOW.

-- End Changed Discussion --

&&

.TIDES/COASTAL FLOODING...

-- Changed Discussion --

POTENTIAL FOR MINOR COASTAL IMPACTS MONDAY INTO MIDWEEK WITH A NEW

MOON ON MONDAY AND A SERIES OF LOW PRESSURES AFFECTING THE REGION.

AN INTENSIFYING LOW PRESSURE WILL HAVE NE/N WINDS INCREASING TO

POTENTIALLY GALE FORCE SUNDAY NIGHT AND CONTINUING INTO MONDAY.

BASED ON A TRACK OF INTENSIFYING LOW THAT SHOULD BE SE OF THE

40/70 LAT/LON BENCHMARK AND COLD AIR DAMMING SIGNATURE...WOULD

EXPECT POTENTIAL FOR WINDS TO BE BACKED MORE TO THE N THAN NE.

THIS WOULD FAVOR THE LOWER SURGE GUIDANCE FOR MONDAY AND MONDAY

NIGHT HIGH TIDE CYCLES...WHICH WOULD KEEP IMPACTS MINOR AND

LIKELY LIMITED TO THE MOST VULNERABLE LOCALES. WILL HAVE TO

MONITOR.

AS WE HEAD INTO TUESDAYS HIGH TIDAL CYCLES...POTENTIAL EXISTS FOR

WINDS TO VEER MORE TO THE NE AS ADDITIONAL WAVE/S OF LOW PRESSURE

TRACK TO THE SOUTH OF THE REGION. THE SPRING ASTRO TIDES AND MULTI-

TIDAL CYCLE NATURE OF THE EVENT WILL FAVOR ADDITIONAL MINOR

FLOODING...WITH POTENTIAL FOR WIDESPREAD MINOR TO MODERATE IMPACTS

IN THE BACK BAY AREAS TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY.

-- End Changed Discussion --

&&

.OKX WATCHES/WARNINGS/ADVISORIES...

-- Changed Discussion --

CT...NONE.

NY...NONE.

NJ...NONE.

MARINE...SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY FROM MIDNIGHT SUNDAY NIGHT TO 6 PM EST

MONDAY FOR ANZ335-338-345.

GALE WATCH FROM LATE SUNDAY NIGHT THROUGH MONDAY AFTERNOON FOR

ANZ330-340-355.

GALE WARNING FROM MIDNIGHT SUNDAY NIGHT TO 6 PM EST MONDAY FOR

ANZ350-353.

-- End Changed Discussion --

&&

$$

SYNOPSIS...DS/NV

NEAR TERM...NV

SHORT TERM...NV

LONG TERM...DS

AVIATION...MPS

MARINE...DS/NV

HYDROLOGY...DS/NV

TIDES/COASTAL FLOODING...NV

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The west shift people saw was the snow from a subtle lead vort in the main approaching upper wave from the west semi interacting with the coastal and or producing some light snow on its own. We have seen that occur before, most notably with 12/20/95 as the system pulled out and 12/2004

Any chance for a capture here? Snowcane at sea capturing some energy on shore...as opposed to being pushed out to sea.

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The NavGEM interestingly at 42 hours has light snow for the eastern half of LI, the last few events the NavGEM has definitely exhibited its usual slight progressive bias but at times has been west of the globals at day 2-3, this definitely has a chance still but has to happen on tonight's globals

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Here ya go, hour 54, much much better look

 

317cjfb.gif

 

Do you have idea of the set-up or are you just clueless?...HR 60 has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE INITAL WAVE.. For the 3rd time.. That is the ULL, aka the 2nd wave.. The INITAL storm is OTS, aka fish storm....

 

 

dunno why you guys were going to town so hard.  18z GFS did shift west.  (slightly) 

 

give him at-least a touch of credit.  geez

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I'm sorry I did not post on this earlier.

First do not look for the global models to catch the 1st wave here .

Wave 1 may not escape , here's why . The mesoscale models are closing the N branch off almost 12 hours earlier than any of the globals.

So the NAM RGEM and the SREFS at 500 show the earlier NEG tilt earlier out of the N branch

This N energy which ultimately become your IVT influences the backside of the 1st wave and it will in essence tug the low closer to the coast.

The globals will be the last too it because they may not be seeing the N branch correctly

You have a large deep Miller A heading off the GA coast to E of the BM is a pos enso year.

This SW should follow the warm SST and track closer to the coast.

As the system gets to our latitude it produces a large deformation band.

Look at the NAM VV you can see it expand W over LI into NYC and down the NJ shore.

The models will continue to correct W and if this analysis is correct the NAM.and RGEM will lead the way.

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