1/23-24/16 #1 All Time KNYC Snowfall-please add Obs, Accums, Pics

[IrishRob17]

It seems a lot of well intentioned people are measuring snowfall incorrectly. Please see the NWS guidelines:

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/coop/reference/Snow_Measurement_Guidelines.pdf

I agree and we've been talking about it for years. I don't think it will ever change but we can keep fighting the good fight. Congrats on your snow down there and nice post.

[jm1220]

Nassau did very well.  It was obvious from the radar most of the day that they were doing better than out here.

Looking at photos from Long Beach, that's probably the most snow I've ever seen there. Jan 1996 might have been close, but that definitely beat storms like Boxing Day, even PDII. So I think they had at least 24". Given nearby snow amounts-JFK with 30.5", 27-28" in Oceanside and Baldwin, 26" in Merrick and 24" in Island Park (I think when it was still snowing), I'm pretty confident of that. 

[40/70 Benchmark]

Final wrap-up and verification for anyone interested:

http://easternmassweather.blogspot.com

[codfishsnowman]

You know we've been spoiled when 12-15" is considered just a storm. Weenies would kill for those amounts in the 80s/90s.

well we know that the 24.5 inch total from Portchester has to be bogus....and that is by far the most aggrevating  part of following these big snow evens down here is all the inflated totals, my aunt in Rye said it was a good storm but nothing extraordinary...so how far down the line do the real big snows start before one gets to nyc?

[RU848789]

To the best of my knowledge, the article is indeed wrong; they are referring to the old standards which were changed a couple of years ago.  Very interesting that the Sterling MIC doesn't even know that.  NWS is going to have to clarify for everyone what the standard is.  Hopefully the discussion around the DCA measurements will be a catalyst.  As it stands, it sounds like IAD over-reported their snowfall based on having used the wrong (previous) set of standards.

 

Maybe Ray Martin will chime is; he is generally well informed about these types of regs, although if I'm not mistaken, the Sterling MIC is his boss now?

 

I don't care which way it is, as long as it is consistent.  We are all supposed to be measuring the same way and at present there isn't even close to uniformity.

 

The issue of compaction is addressed by recording the maximum depth.  I don't know when the standard of wiping a board every 6 hours was first instituted, but prior to that it was max depth.  The blizzard of 1978 in NYC is a good example.  The total of 17.7" was reached over 6 hours before the snowfall ended.

 

Glad to hear they've gone back to maximum snow depth, which is a far simpler way to measure and just feels right with regard to what people are truly interested in.  Still think people really need to consider going to a decent sized field, like I did yesterday, if drifting introduces too much variability into the measurement (unless they have a huge property - I have 1/4 acre and it's not enough to prevent drifting with the winds and low moisture snow we had).  

 

Didn't realize Ray had left Elko - didn't notice him in the Philly forum, where he usually posts, either.  He's a great resource...

[Rjay]

well we know that the 24.5 inch total from Portchester has to be bogus....and that is by far the most aggrevating part of following these big snow evens down here is all the inflated totals, my aunt in Rye said it was a good storm but nothing extraordinary...so how far down the line do the real big snows start before one gets to nyc?

Prob near Mount Vernon.

[Ababa]

You know we've been spoiled when 12-15" is considered just a storm. Weenies would kill for those amounts in the 80s/90s.

This is true but very annoying in lower westchester when the entire immediate suburbs including rockland do better by 10 to 12 inches. Literally 9 miles to my south has a foot more. Ver annoying to miss out on historic totals during a historic storm and be so close

[OSUmetstud]

To the best of my knowledge, the article is indeed wrong; they are referring to the old standards which were changed a couple of years ago. Very interesting that the Sterling MIC doesn't even know that. NWS is going to have to clarify for everyone what the standard is. Hopefully the discussion around the DCA measurements will be a catalyst. As it stands, it sounds like IAD over-reported their snowfall based on having used the wrong (previous) set of standards.

Maybe Ray Martin will chime is; he is generally well informed about these types of regs, although if I'm not mistaken, the Sterling MIC is his boss now?

I don't care which way it is, as long as it is consistent. We are all supposed to be measuring the same way and at present there isn't even close to uniformity.

The issue of compaction is addressed by recording the maximum depth. I don't know when the standard of wiping a board every 6 hours was first instituted, but prior to that it was max depth. The blizzard of 1978 in NYC is a good example. The total of 17.7" was reached over 6 hours before the snowfall ended.

Read 3.1.4. In reference to observations at major airports.

[psv88]

I live not far from the town golf course, about 3 or 4 miles east of the SM parkway. I am about 8 miles from the intersection of Larkfield and Route 25.

Wow. You are pretty far NE from here. Definitely can see your lower totals now that I know how far north you are.

[SnoSki14]

This is true but very annoying in lower westchester when the entire immediate suburbs including rockland do better by 10 to 12 inches. Literally 9 miles to my south has a foot more. Ver annoying to miss out on historic totals during a historic storm and be so close

Understandable I too have a jackpot fetish. My area got a bit shafted compared to most of Middlesex County but I'm not complaining. Those bands make all the difference and it can be painful to be so close to something much bigger.

That happened last year with Juno at a further distance of around 50 miles.

[Brian5671]

Saw the northern cutoff first hand today-took the family to ski at Thunder ridge in Paterson, NY about 10 miles north of I-84.    Amounts dropped off dramatically as we drove north thru Danbury and then even more so the further north of I84 we went-only about 3 inches at the mountain vs about 13-15 down here at the CT coast.

[HailMan06]

..SOMERSET COUNTY...

2 S BERNARDS TWP 30.0 1000 PM 1/23 COCORAHS

ENE SOMERVILLE 28.4 800 AM 1/24 COCORAHS

BOUND BROOK 28.0 835 AM 1/24 TRAINED SPOTTER

BELLE MEAD 28.0 920 AM 1/24 TRAINED SPOTTER

SOMERVILLE 27.4 622 PM 1/23 TRAINED SPOTTER

BERNARDSVILLE 27.0 1118 AM 1/24 TRAINED SPOTTER

GREENBROOK TWP 25.0 724 PM 1/23 TRAINED SPOTTER

BRIDGEWATER TWP 24.5 1100 PM 1/23 TRAINED SPOTTER

3 NW BRIDGEWATER TWP 24.5 700 AM 1/24 COCORAHS

5 NNW FRANKLIN TWP 24.0 700 AM 1/24 COCORAHS

1 NNW BERNARDS TWP 23.6 800 AM 1/24 COCORAHS

3 ESE BEDMINSTER TWP 23.2 1000 AM 1/24 COCORAHS

WARREN TWP 23.0 917 AM 1/24 TRAINED SPOTTER

5 ESE HILLSBOROUGH T 22.5 700 AM 1/24 COCORAHS

2 NNE MONTGOMERY TWP 22.0 800 AM 1/24 COCORAHS

4 ENE FRANKLIN TWP 21.5 800 AM 1/24 COCORAHS

HILLSBOROUGH 20.7 907 AM 1/24 TRAINED SPOTTER

BASKING RIDGE 20.0 1030 PM 1/23 TRAINED SPOTTER

KINGSTON 18.5 945 PM 1/23 TRAINED SPOTTER

That's mine

[nycwinter]

I agree with this, the record is a long shot unless some sort of mesoscale band forms within the area to the west as it pivots through. I think they end up around 20-22 but getting to 27 will require something extraordinary

we came that close

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

Finally got out in it in wantagh after sleeping all day having. Worked 30 hours straight. Definitely several inches less thenManhattan. I wasn't sure why until I discoverd a layer of sleet. So here at home close to the bay it was about 22". Still solid but not what I saw at work. If say we lost 4-6" here to sleet

[NorthShoreWx]

Glad to hear they've gone back to maximum snow depth, which is a far simpler way to measure and just feels right with regard to what people are truly interested in.  Still think people really need to consider going to a decent sized field, like I did yesterday, if drifting introduces too much variability into the measurement (unless they have a huge property - I have 1/4 acre and it's not enough to prevent drifting with the winds and low moisture snow we had).  

 

Didn't realize Ray had left Elko - didn't notice him in the Philly forum, where he usually posts, either.  He's a great resource...

 

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/46429-june-obs-and-daily-disco/page-7#entry3582886

[jm1220]

I understand the frustration of not being in the jackpot zone-happens often in SW Nassau. Boxing Day was great there but was a lot better just 30 miles west. Same with a lot of the miller B type systems that nail eastern Long Island and graze NYC. 1/12/11 is another example-I had maybe 9" at my house, but northern/eastern Suffolk had up to 20". The crazy mesoscale bands formed just a little too far east. 

[NorthShoreWx]

Read 3.1.4. In reference to observations at major airports.

 

Thanks Nick.  I was aware of that and mentioned it in this post:

 

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/47720-123-24-randytastic-blizzard-obs-accums-pics/?p=3929374

 

That seems to apply only to certain airports with contracted snow measuring.  They may have bigger fish to fry most of the time, but I'd love to see some official clarification from the NWS that eliminates some of the uncertainty for how the public should measure.

[jm1220]

Finally got out in it in wantagh after sleeping all day having. Worked 30 hours straight. Definitely several inches less thenManhattan. I wasn't sure why until I discoverd a layer of sleet. So here at home close to the bay it was about 22". Still solid but not what I saw at work. If say we lost 4-6" here to sleet

Wow-sleet?! Maybe it was snow grains? Dual pol was all snow for the entire event for the entire area. 

 

Maybe the snow also settled a lot in Wantagh too. Looks like there was a low report in Bellmore but other amounts around you were 24"+. 

[JBG]

You know we've been spoiled when 12-15" is considered just a storm. Weenies would kill for those amounts in the 80s/90s.

Back in the day, before the new methods of measurement, i.e. repeated measurement during the storm evolved a 15-incher, such as Mayor Lindsay or the February 1961 storm was blood and guts crippling. These days a 15" storm is more like a 10" storm of old, such as the February 10, 1975 storm, i.e. no big deal. I have seen pictures, in a White Plains restaurant, of the December 26-27, 1947 storm. Trust me, yesterday's storm, while fun, looked nothing like that. White Plains did not look like a moonscape this morning.

 

So I disagree that I am "spoiled." I just think a 15" storm then was a lot worse than a 15" storm now.

[Nibor]

One more.

[Morris]

[Morris]

[Ericjcrash]

My current view, streets still a mess...

[RU848789]

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/46429-june-obs-and-daily-disco/page-7#entry3582886

 

Thanks!  Picked the right time to move to the western suburbs of DC - probably close to 30" for them.  

[tamarack]

Well, we got this:

 

NWS New York NY ‏@NWSNewYorkNY  4m4 minutes ago

A record all time daily snowfall of 26.6 inches was set at Central Park yesterday. This breaks the old record of 24.1 set on Feb 12 2006.

 

There's something squirrelly about the records for the 12/1947 dump.  I downloaded data from the Utah Climate Center 5-6 years ago that had KNYC getting 25.5" on 12/26, then looked at the CLIMOD 2 site today and found a different sequence, the two shown below:

 

UCC

12/25....33...19........0........0

12/26....31...25...2.36"...25.5"

12/27....35...29...0.04".....0.3"

 

CLIMOD 2

12/25....33...19........0........0

12/26....31...25...0.26".....3.7"

12/27....35...29...2.14"...22.1"  (Hard to believe 22" of 10:1 at those temps.)

 

Note that the temps, and the snow/LE totals, are identical.  It's like the station changed from its usual midnight obs to 7 AM for that month (at least) and only for precip   I also dug into the account of that storm in one of the K-U books, and found the following timetable for 12/26:

 

0320....Snowfall begins

0700.....2"

1015.....7"

1300....12"

1900....24"

Seems a lot more compatible with the older UCC records (though admittedly, it's only wx trivia.)

 

 

So my brothers total of 30" in Flemington turns out to be a tick too high. I spoke to him this morning and he did say his measuring area was a little close to a roof so that could of been the problem, but its still really close to the official total. 

 

I wouldn't be too hard on him for the difference between 28.3" and 30".  In a storm this big and this windy, one could probably make 100 well distributed measurements in an open field, take the average, then from a different starting point in that field take another 100 such measurements and come up with a second average at least that far apart from the first. 

 

On another note - the place where I grew up in northern Morris Cty may have gotten a bigger storm than any I saw there (1950-1972) or in Maine since then - my biggest is 26.5" in northern Maine March 14-15, 1984.  (Have not seen final obs from the two peeps from Butler yet; they're only a few miles from my old home.)

[negative-nao]

North Wildwood before and after the storm

 

 

[AnthonyDabbundo]

Drone shot of my hometown in Collegeville, PA

[Morris]

Amazing shot.

[JerseyWx]

There's something squirrelly about the records for the 12/1947 dump.  I downloaded data from the Utah Climate Center 5-6 years ago that had KNYC getting 25.5" on 12/26, then looked at the CLIMOD 2 site today and found a different sequence, the two shown below:

 

UCC

12/25....33...19........0........0

12/26....31...25...2.36"...25.5"

12/27....35...29...0.04".....0.3"

 

CLIMOD 2

12/25....33...19........0........0

12/26....31...25...0.26".....3.7"

12/27....35...29...2.14"...22.1"  (Hard to believe 22" of 10:1 at those temps.)

 

Note that the temps, and the snow/LE totals, are identical.  It's like the station changed from its usual midnight obs to 7 AM for that month (at least) and only for precip   I also dug into the account of that storm in one of the K-U books, and found the following timetable for 12/26:

 

0320....Snowfall begins

0700.....2"

1015.....7"

1300....12"

1900....24"

Seems a lot more compatible with the older UCC records (though admittedly, it's only wx trivia.)

 

 

So my brothers total of 30" in Flemington turns out to be a tick too high. I spoke to him this morning and he did say his measuring area was a little close to a roof so that could of been the problem, but its still really close to the official total. 

 

I wouldn't be too hard on him for the difference between 28.3" and 30".  In a storm this big and this windy, one could probably make 100 well distributed measurements in an open field, take the average, then from a different starting point in that field take another 100 such measurements and come up with a second average at least that far apart from the first. 

 

On another note - the place where I grew up in northern Morris Cty may have gotten a bigger storm than any I saw there (1950-1972) or in Maine since then - my biggest is 26.5" in northern Maine March 14-15, 1984.  (Have not seen final obs from the two peeps from Butler yet; they're only a few miles from my old home.)

 

Hey tamarack.  At our house we measured 20-24" depending on what part of the property we were on.  We took the average and called it 22"

 

There's a car under there somewhere lol 

 

[Mitchel Volk]

I did an analysis on snowstorms over 10" in NYC and the compared obs from: CPK, LGA and JFK and determined that the was the number one snowstorm citywide for NYC. For older storm like 1888 I estimated the 18"-36" fell over the city. For this one I estimated 23"-34".