ORH_wxman Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I'm disappointed that he hasn't recognized the greatness of the three states to his north for the winter virtues he seeks. Or his own state...just move west about 30 miles from his current location and he will increase his average days with snow depth >1" to over 70. But yeah, NNE is is just about the best spot in the country outside of the western mountains to retain snowpack...maybe the Arrowhead of MN and UP of Michigan as exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Does Chicago get more snow than us in January? I never had that impression. They're upstream from the lakes so they only get les on a long nne fetch (was there once for a fun one). ORD 10.8 to BOS 12.9 (normals) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreaves Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 VT torches often at people living level though . Id hit NNH NMEWest of the Greens and the CT River Valley yes but take where I live at 1250', we have decent retention and I average close to 100" a year or at least that's what the old KMPV observer averaged before automation. I would argue that his description is almost the textbook manner that we go about winter. Is it better further NE? No doubt but it's pretty good around here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weathafella Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 ORD 10.8 to BOS 12.9 (normals) Thank you. I actually am mildly surprised ord even gets that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ono Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 VT torches often at people living level though . Id hit NNH NME You may be referring to western Vt- Champlain Valley (Chittenden and Addison counties) plus Rutland county to the south- about a third of the state's population and the CT river valley (both low elevation areas). North Central Vt and Notheast Vermont- well, if you love snow, that's whole different world. The towns east of the Champlain Valley and north of Rt. 2 are generally very snowy and cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 More or less he just described Pittsburg (NH not PA which has an "h")lol yep exactly what came to my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Thank you. I actually am mildly surprised ord even gets that much. BOS about 50% more 3" and 6" snow storms in January. I would guess the variance at ORD is higher than BOS for the month. Boom or bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy4Confluence Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Does Chicago get more snow than us in January? I never had that impression. They're upstream from the lakes so they only get les on a long nne fetch (was there once for a fun one). I didn't mean that. I screwed up. Let me try one more time: Chicago average temp is less than BOS in January. Therefore they would do better with snow retention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 You may be referring to western Vt- Champlain Valley (Chittenden and Addison counties) plus Rutland county to the south- about a third of the state's population and the CT river valley (both low elevation areas). North Central Vt and Notheast Vermont- well, if you love snow, that's whole different world. The towns east of the Champlain Valley and north of Rt. 2 are generally very snowy and cold.Mid March NNH NME retain snow better but NVT is good too. Latitude and wetter snow up in NME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 If there were observers on the border in NW Maine NE of Pittsburg NH, You would be getting prolific snow totals, I have ridden those areas and not uncommon to see a 6-7' pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I screwed up again. Let me try one more time: Chicago average temp less than BOS in January. Therefore they would do better with snow retention. They do mildly better in winter for retention IIRC. I think BOS was something like 38 days with snow cover and ORD is in the mid 40s. (maybe Chris can look it up...as I have no idea where to find that info these days on the ghastly NCDC site...'81-'10 probably doesn't have it anyway or it;s wrong for BOS, since they stopped keeping snow cover data..but their older normals was 38 or so...and that was Logan airport...definitely higher just away from there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I screwed up again. Let me try one more time: Chicago average temp less than BOS in January. Therefore they would do better with snow retention.cities blow for snow retention,cripes they truck it away, lol. Seriously not even a comparison, think water content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ono Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Mid March NNH NME retain snow better but NVT is good too. Latitude and wetter snow up in NME I'd say that's a generally fair point. But by mid-March with a good winter, I'm content with the mountains holding their own, and the valleys moving toward spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I screwed up again. Let me try one more time: Chicago average temp less than BOS in January. Therefore they would do better with snow retention. They are pretty similar in that respect. Very similar records for 1, 3, 6, and 12 inches on the ground. Also nearly identical dates for last day with 1 inch on the ground. BOS does have far more long stretches with snow on the ground though. ORD tends to have similar records, but the 10th longest, and 15th longest can't compete with BOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I'd say that's a generally fair point. But by mid-March with a good winter, I'm content with the mountains holding their own, and the valleys moving toward spring.April 1 would be ideal for me, by April last year I was ready to melt out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 They do mildly better in winter for retention IIRC. I think BOS was something like 38 days with snow cover and ORD is in the mid 40s. (maybe Chris can look it up...as I have no idea where to find that info these days on the ghastly NCDC site...'81-'10 probably doesn't have it anyway or it;s wrong for BOS, since they stopped keeping snow cover data..but their older normals was 38 or so...and that was Logan airport...definitely higher just away from there) Pretty close, BOS on average has their first 1 inch depth on 12/10 (ORD 12/1), and it melts on average by 3/18 (ORD 3/19). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TauntonBlizzard2013 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Snow retention is poor around here. Last year was an exception. I'd take a 2 foot storm if it melted 10 mins after it stopped snowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 They are pretty similar in that respect. Very similar records for 1, 3, 6, and 12 inches on the ground. Also nearly identical dates for last day with 1 inch on the ground. BOS does have far more long stretches with snow on the ground though. ORD tends to have similar records, but the 10th longest, and 15th longest can't compete with BOS. being in Boston last month at our GTG I wondered how the hell they dealt with all that snow last year, man what a disaster that place is to drive in downtown. With 4 feet of snow otg I cant imagine. Ask Garth, I couldn't get out of there fast enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy4Confluence Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 cities blow for snow retention,cripes they truck it away, lol. Seriously not even a comparison, think water content I work in the financial district of BOS, and even there this passed Feb., you'd never know we were having a 100 inch month. Streets and sidewalks were totally clean, so I agree with you there. But in the residential areas of the city, like Somerville, or Southie, the snowpacks were evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Pretty close, BOS on average has their first 1 inch depth on 12/10 (ORD 12/1), and it melts on average by 3/18 (ORD 3/19). xmACIS says 36 days on average with 1 inch on the ground at BOS, and 43 for ORD. But BOS is missing a bunch of data, not sure if that's tainting the mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Pretty close, BOS on average has their first 1 inch depth on 12/10 (ORD 12/1), and it melts on average by 3/18 (ORD 3/19). The normals used to list "days with depth >=1" ....essentially average number of days with snow cover in winter. BOS was something like 38, Reading coop was 57 maybe? and ORH was around 70. His closest coop is Reading...I'd bet he would have a hard time finding a lot of places in the midwest that average more days with snow cover than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 xmACIS says 36 days on average with 1 inch on the ground at BOS, and 43 for ORD. But BOS is missing a bunch of data, not sure if that's tainting the mean. Yeah that's the stat I'm looking for. That is almost certainly tainted a bit if it's '81-'10. No snow depth data after 1990s...so no prolific 2000s and yet we still keep the putrid 1980s in the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Lol .2 precip in 10 days on the GFS, thanks Nino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 The normals used to list "days with depth >=1" ....essentially average number of days with snow cover in winter. BOS was something like 38, Reading coop was 57 maybe? and ORH was around 70. His closest coop is Reading...I'd bet he would have a hard time finding a lot of places in the midwest that average more days with snow cover than that. At DVN is always seemed to be we'd get snow, then a combination of sublimation, wind, and warmth would gradually erode it down to 1 inch or a trace, then we'd do it all over again. A lot of our cold did come with pretty bare ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 cities blow for snow retention,cripes they truck it away, lol. Seriously not even a comparison, think water content You really have a hilarious hatred of cities. Wah Wah Wah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneypitmike Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 You know the season's going down the chute when you have pages in the pattern discussion thread of Jerry's dumps and whether it's better to live in Cleveland, Chicago or NNE. and Will's not chastising for the non-pattern posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 You know the season's going down the chute when you have pages in the pattern discussion thread of Jerry's dumps and whether it's better to live in Cleveland, Chicago or NNE. and Will's not chastising for the non-pattern posts. I am though. Let's do our best to keep this about the pattern. I know sometimes we go off on a tangent and start talking about stats or current snowfall, but I'd like to keep steering this vessel back on course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Eps looked fine to me in our hood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40/70 Benchmark Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Very provocative read from Cohen in the AER blog today. Ironically, the -AO in place seems to be prohibiting any increase in energy propagation from the troposphere to the stratosphere, effectively ensuring no SSW until at least the end of January. Energy transfer was sufficient to flip the pattern, but not enough to vanquish the PV, as everyone knows.... since it was was so potent to begin with. Now we are left to ponder whether the colder pattern will remain for most of the balance of the season, or abate. Cohen thinks the pattern will hold because it did the past two seasons, and the state of the PV is now similar: As we have been discussing in the blog the stretched and elongated polar vortex predicted for the first half of January is very similar to the configuration of the polar vortex of the past two January’s. Though in January 2014 no SSW occurred while in January 2015 a significant SSW occurred with record warm temperatures in the polar stratosphere. Yet both produced repeated Arctic outbreaks across the Eastern United States and overall cold three-month averages from January through March. Therefore we continue to feel that temperatures will average below normal for much of Southeastern Canada and the Eastern United States for the three-month period January through March. The models predict that the cold air will be focused in the Plains, surprisingly west for an El Niño winter. However typically the focus of the cold air slowly shifts eastward as the winter progresses. Similarly we continue to predict overall below normal temperatures for northern Eurasia. However the configuration of the polar vortex did not favor cold in Western Europe the past two winters and similarly it does not so far this winter. But the AO is likely to be more negative this January than the previous two, increasing the chances for Arctic outbreaks into Western Europe eventually. It continues to be a challenging forecast for this winter and probably nowhere more so than in Western Europe. Our three-month temperature forecast for January-February-March 2016 is shown at the end of the blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 The stratosphere so far has been well modeled. It's locked and loaded near the poles. The temporary -AO has been a tropospheric response that no long range model can predict. Such is the nature of chaos in the atmosphere. Still looks like no SSW until at least Feb and I have doubts on that. In the meantime, I have been focused on the Pacific and have mentioned that all along. That's what we should be focusing on. That seems to be a much better predictor for us this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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