Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,607
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    ArlyDude
    Newest Member
    ArlyDude
    Joined

Met Winter Banter


dmillz25

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 6.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

06 GFS has a ridge in the west, trough In The east. Return to near normal temps for early Jan, then mid Jan gets Very interesting....

Agree somewhat, but then again, not really. 

 

+PNA ridge bridge, some indication of a developing -NAO for the following week, which is supported by the development of a Scandinavian ridge next week. Aleutian low has retrograded to a decent spot. We should have a few opportunities for frozen, but overall, a long ways off from an ideal look.

image.thumb.jpg.3e759963c622052fcadbfb8f

 

But not even close to where we need the PV out to Jan 8. In fact, I think the 10hpa forecast is very discouraging. Look how cold and strong the PV still is even heading into mid Jan. The second week of Jan is forecast to have a very strong SSWE, much stronger than anything we've seen so far, but the PV just might be too strong to overcome. 1958's PV split didn't come until very late in January. I would say we have until January 20th or so to see the PV meaningfully displace or split, or...we're cooked and doomed to have a 2011-2012 repeat.

 

image.thumb.jpg.84ec9b9934b49f408286d000

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most models now have a piece of the tropo PV sitting over the Davis Strait for the back end of the 11-15 day period, stratosphere at 50mb is pretty discouraging for any longer lasting flip to a cold pattern involving significant blocking.  Continue to operate under the idea that any potential longer lasting flip to significant blocking has a better chance of happening later rather than sooner.

 

That's not to say you can't get storm induced volatility (you can and likely will,  it likely won't be as anomalously warm as it has been which is not a big call when you're +30), but longer term ideas of a flip from aboves to belows on the temperature side don't look great to me.  It's not a death knell for storms overall, and we can and likely will have spurts of seasonal to slightly cooler weather for a day or two at a time.  If you get a storm to line up with that, there's a chance for perhaps a quick interior event.  However, this is still a poor pattern for any appreciable cold to lock in for any length of time should you believe model guidance today.  Absent model guidance, I'd argue the background state isn't particularly favorable either.

 

Today's European Ensemble day 15 is discouraging and would likely support broad warmth across much of the northern tier of the US.  The GFS ens at the end of the period isn't much better.  

 

ECMWF-EPS_500mbHgtanom_nhem_f360.png

 

GFS-ENS_500mbHgtanom_nhem_f366.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most models now have a piece of the tropo PV sitting over the Davis Strait for the back end of the 11-15 day period, which is generally a terrible sign for the NAO to flip negative. Stratosphere at 50mb is pretty discouraging for any longer lasting flip to a cold pattern involving significant blocking. Continue to operate under the idea that any potential longer lasting flip to significant blocking has a better chance of happening later rather than sooner.

That's not to say you can't get storm induced volatility (you can and likely will, it likely won't be as anomalously warm as it has been which is not a big call when you're +30), but longer term ideas of a flip from aboves to belows on the temperature side don't look great to me. It's not a death knell for storms overall, and we can and likely will have spurts of seasonal to slightly cooler weather for a day or two at a time. If you get a storm to line up with that, there's a chance for perhaps a quick interior event. However, this is still a poor pattern for any appreciable cold to lock in for any length of time should you believe model guidance today. Absent model guidance, I'd argue the background state isn't particularly favorable either.

Today's European Ensemble day 15 is discouraging and would likely support broad warmth across much of the northern tier of the US. The GFS ens at the end of the period isn't much better.

ECMWF-EPS_500mbHgtanom_nhem_f360.png

GFS-ENS_500mbHgtanom_nhem_f366.png

The long range got very ugly looking. Even if we get some semblance of -AO and -NAO at the end of January, I very seriously doubt the EPO cooperates now. I'm quickly loosing faith in the ideas I had a week ago for the end of January and February
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The long range got very ugly looking. Even if we get some semblance of -AO and -NAO at the end of January, I very seriously doubt the EPO cooperates now. I'm quickly loosing faith in the ideas I had a week ago for the end of January and February

 

I will say it's getting harder and harder to make an argument for blocking developing around mid-month.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will say it's getting harder and harder to make an argument for blocking developing around mid-month.

I'd be surprised if we get any at all.   someone posted a stat showing how little blocking there has been since March 2013.   Seems like we may have started another longer term positive stretch and that big pool of cold water S of Greenland argues for a positive NAO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd be surprised if we get any at all.   someone posted a stat showing how little blocking there has been since March 2013.   Seems like we may have started another longer term positive stretch

The persistence argument is folly.

If given a reason to flip, it will flip.

 

In which direction had the EPO been biased over the course of the last few years?

 

I don't really know of anyone who called for help from the Atlantic and arctic during the month of January.

The prevailing thought has always been that some help from the Pacific would make the pattern more serviceable in January, and in February it would all come together.

 

January is a transitional month.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The persistence argument is folly.

If given a reason to flip, it will flip.

In which direction had the EPO been biased over the course of the last few years?

I don't really know of anyone who called for help from the Atlantic and arctic during the month of January.

The prevailing thought has always been that some help from the Pacific would make the pattern more serviceable in January, and in February it would all come together.

January is a transitional month.

The chances of getting sustained -EPO like we have had the last 3 winters with a Nino this strong are very very slim. You can make the argument for sustained +PNA, but prolonged -EPO? Don't bet on it. We have never had a -EPO winter along with a super El Niño
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The persistence argument is folly.

If given a reason to flip, it will flip.

 

In which direction had the EPO been biased over the course of the last few years?

 

I don't really know of anyone who called for help from the Atlantic and arctic during the month of January.

The prevailing thought has always been that some help from the Pacific would make the pattern more serviceable in January, and in February it would all come together.

 

January is a transitional month.

I've argued that it comes down to the EPO again like last year.  We had zero help from the AO and NAO last year and did just fine.   If we don't get a -EPO this year we are toast...that continued warm pool in the Pacific should help promote the -EPO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The chances of getting sustained -EPO like we have had the last 3 winters with a Nino this strong are very very slim. You can make the argument for sustained +PNA, but prolonged -EPO? Don't bet on it. 

 

Agree with this for the time being.  Later on in the season, not necessarily the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The chances of getting sustained -EPO like we have had the last 3 winters with a Nino this strong are very very slim. You can make the argument for sustained +PNA, but prolonged -EPO? Don't bet on it. We have never had a -EPO winter along with a super El Niño

I think a piece of that will depend on how quickly the nino dissipates.  Models show a sharp drop, but if there is any delay, then I agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The chances of getting sustained -EPO like we have had the last 3 winters with a Nino this strong are very very slim. You can make the argument for sustained +PNA, but prolonged -EPO? Don't bet on it. We have never had a -EPO winter along with a super El Niño

Of course we haven't because its always raging positive throughout the first 3/4 of the season.

I'm not talking about the majority of the winter...I don't give a rat's azz about December and most of January.

 

Regardless, why would anyone ever question the formidable sample size of three.

Agreed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...