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December 2015 Discussion


Hoosier

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My bad, Sally.

Already know you're down for a DAB for Wednesday morning

NAM continues to be bullish with 1-2" somewhere across northern IL and the Euro has around an inch.

Could be a decent little burst of SHSN moving across the area. I think I went up to an inch in spots in grids - favored NAM/RGEM for smaller scale details (though not as bullish) but Euro came in pretty similar. Will probably be mainly grassy surfaces because it won't get all that cold tomorrow night.

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A little OT but here's a loop of that 12/24/97 storm that was mentioned yesterday.  I remember the flakes being huge for a while...like mini snow bombs...which radar seems to back up.

 

 

attachicon.gif1997.gif

 

2/26/13 was similar to that storm, but it set up shop a little further SE.

 

I recall non-stop, straight-up cottonballs with 2/26/13 for a couple hours after transitioning from rain/sleet (but the snow only added up to about 2-4"). It was the best plaster job we had in a long time until this recent November snowstorm. 

 

I would love to have another one of these storms soon.

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No. Maybe for more sustained winter...but absolutely a decent storm can happen in an overall warm december.

I agree.  Though the immediate shoreline communities of the Buffalo-Toronto corridor will not be seeing a significant snowstorm in December, that I can pretty much guarantee. The lakes are way to warm and the way both cities are situated (especially Toronto) any storm that forms south enough to put us in the snow zone will also throw east to northeast winds right off the lake eating into totals substantially or just giving us plain rain. 

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I agree.  Though the immediate shoreline communities of the Buffalo-Toronto corridor will not be seeing a significant snowstorm in December, that I can pretty much guarantee. The lakes are way to warm and the way both cities are situated (especially Toronto) any storm that forms south enough to put us in the snow zone will also throw east to northeast winds right off the lake eating into totals substantially or just giving us plain rain. 

 

I didn't think I had a shot at double digit totals with the snowstorm on the 20-21st because of a lake that was running between 47-50°, but it happened! Anything is possible.

But a system coming out of the west or northwest would keep that marine influence off shore more than likely.

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I didn't think I had a shot at double digit totals with the snowstorm on the 20-21st because of a lake that was running between 47-50°, but it happened! Anything is possible.

But a system coming out of the west or northwest would keep that marine influence off shore more than likely.

 

 

You are several miles inland though, right?

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I didn't think I had a shot at double digit totals with the snowstorm on the 20-21st because of a lake that was running between 47-50°, but it happened! Anything is possible.

But a system coming out of the west or northwest would keep that marine influence off shore more than likely.

 

We had a 25" snowstorm in early/mid October with a 62 degree lake. You can get snow with any lake temperature.

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Not to really dissect an hr 384 prog, but those 850 mb temps, except up by INL, are really not all that cold for December for most of the subforum.

Ultimately you're right though, little chance of verifying.

 

Well I mean it has to get cold eventually right? This set-up would just be different than a PAC dominated El Nino flow.

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Well I mean it has to get cold eventually right? This set-up would just be different than a PAC dominated El Nino flow.

Yeah I'd be surprised if we go the rest of the month after the brief shot here tomorrow night and Wednesday without any typical December cold. The lakes will stay quite warm so if you get a nice mid and upper pattern to set up for a few days, the LES belts could cash in.
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Sheesh that is a monster bomb the GFS has there for entertainment purposes.

 

Problem with this kind of stuff in a Nino like this is you often have southern stream waves that wipe the Gulf clean of moisture before anything of that kind of magnitude can eject.

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Heading into December I see no real difference in the pattern we are in now. Storms and rain are about, with some portions flirting with freezing creating a brief snow with decent rates. Depending on the path of the low some cash in nice, others get rain.  Followed by another warm up and repeat.... Near the end of the month @ Hoosier's mark of change, I agree with the pattern breaking down and more sustained cold mixing into the region.

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Interesting write up for the week of 8-12 from GRR:

 

.WEEK TWO FORECAST...(WEDNESDAY THROUGH SATURDAY)

WE WILL CONTINUE TO SEE THIS TRANQUIL WEATHER PATTERN CONTINUE
THROUGH MOST OF NEXT WEEK. HOWEVER THERE ARE SIGNS OF A BIG CHANGE
IN OUR WEATHER PATTERN TOWARD NEXT WEEKEND (SAT THE 12TH OF
DECEMBER). A RATHER STRONG STORM SYSTEM CURRENTLY OVER SIBERIA HEADS
EAST AND BRINGS ONE OF THOSE EAST ASIAN JET FEATURES OVER KOREA
THURSDAY (THIS WEEK) WITH WINDS A JET STREAM LEVELS IN THE 170 KNOT
TO 190 KNOT RANGE. THIS FEATURE IS SEEN ON BOTH THE GFS AND ECMWF SO
THERE IS MODEL CONSISTENCE FOR THIS FEATURE. THE SYSTEM IS SLOW TO
MOVE EAST BUT REACHES THE DATELINE BY SUNDAY WITH WINDS OF 170 TO
190 KNOTS AT THE JET STREAM LEVEL. AS THIS JET CORE REACHES THE WEST
COAST IN THE TUE/WED TIME FRAME IT PUMPS UP A SHORTWAVE RIDGE HEAD
IF IT (KEEPS IT WARM AND DRY HERE). WHERE IT GETS INTERESTING TO
SOUTHWEST MICHIGAN IS AFTER IT COMES ON SHORE IN THE THU/FRI TIME
FRAME A LARGE UPPER RIDGE (SEEN ON BOTH THE ECMWF AND GFS) BUILD
OVER THE GULF OF ALASKA. THIS WILL FORCE A CONSOLIDATION OF THE
NORTHERN AND SOUTHERN STREAMS. WHICH MEANS A LARGE SCALE DEEP TROUGH
OVER THE CENTRAL UNITED STATES BY NEXT WEEKEND. THIS WOULD BE A
STORMY PATTERN FOR SOUTHWEST MICHIGAN (BUT STILL WARM BUT RATHER
WET). JUST BEYOND THAT TIME FRAME THOUGH THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE WE
WILL SEE A LONGER PERIOD OF COLD AIR AND SNOWY WEATHER
.

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The latest run of the GFS has 938mb near Alaska, 937mb near Iceland, on different days this week. All the warm weather lovers in the East will like this. These kinds of extratropical pressures are unusual for all areas but the Southern Hemisphere/open ocean near Antarctica.

 

4MHUffa.png

 

ri3V19B.png

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