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Winter 2015-16 Medium-Long Range Discussion


OHweather

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The Euro has PWATs to almost 2" to Southern Wisconsin at day 9.5-10. As Andy mentioned the dew points are record territory for this time of year as well, hell it brings 55 dew points to the UP of Michigan and Green Bay. This is probably by far one of the most anomalous runs I have ever seen from a weather model. The part that does carry some credibility to the period is that there will be very strong jet of 180 to 200 knots running the entire length of the Pacific in a couple days before diving into the Southwest, that part looks pretty certain, the details afterwards are highly subject to change. However you throw that much energy into the Southwest, you are going to get a significant system to come out of it. Considering the PNA is forecast to flip at that time and the NAO/AO are going to be very positive, this isn't going to be a snowstorm for most of us, which also lends credibility to the Euro's depiction. Needless to say this is something that interests me very much as I have been watching this jet streak for several days on the models and it has not wavered one bit.

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The Euro has PWATs to almost 2" to Southern Wisconsin at day 9.5-10. As Andy mentioned the dew points are record territory for this time of year as well, hell it brings 55 dew points to the UP of Michigan and Green Bay. This is probably by far one of the most anomalous runs I have ever seen from a weather model. The part that does carry some credibility to the period is that there will be very strong jet of 180 to 200 knots running the entire length of the Pacific in a couple days before diving into the Southwest, that part looks pretty certain, the details afterwards are highly subject to change. However you throw that much energy into the Southwest, you are going to get a significant system to come out of it. Considering the PNA is forecast to flip at that time and the NAO/AO are going to be very positive, this isn't going to be a snowstorm for most of us, which also lends credibility to the Euro's depiction. Needless to say this is something that interests me very much as I have been watching this jet streak for several days on the models and it has not wavered one bit.

GRR also mentioned it in their week 2 forecast which is a very rare forecast. Very interestingto be sure. I'd rather snow but I like any extreme weather.

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I'd be all for one last severe weather outbreak. Then, it can snow all it wants until April 1st. Wouldn't it be pretty funny to have the first HIGH risk of the year in December? Truly 2015ing. Not saying by any means it will be HIGH risk or even have a risk at all. Just banter/speculation

330 am update: SPC mentions an active pattern beginning in the 8-9 day time frame

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that jet

 

we've kinda been seeing this kind of solution a lot lately but this pattern is even more amplified

 

heck of a solution

 

f240.gif

 

with the additional energy rounding the back side of the western trough and that ridge off the se coast, I would imagine that trough will be in no hurry to move east.

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Looks like it could be interesting in about 10 days.  Some things I'd watch in a broad sense as far as severe weather potential:

 

Do we actually get a strong system and not transition toward something more strung out?

 

Is there a long enough period for good moisture return?

 

Will mid level lapse rates be decent or better? 

 

 

Climo wise, severe weather in December is not that common anywhere in the region, but it's even more rare north of 40N.  Of course there are exceptions and as we just saw with the November snowstorm, strong outliers do occur.  But it's something to at least think about especially at this long distance.

 

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snowmobile hell fire right there

December riding is looking grim. It's garbage everywhere, even Canada. That will change by the end of the month though, their averages drop another 15+ degrees. When you average daily highs in the low teens, you can afford a +15F month and still have snow.

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December riding is looking grim. It's garbage everywhere, even Canada. That will change by the end of the month though, their averages drop another 15+ degrees. When you average daily highs in the low teens, you can afford a +15F month and still have snow.

This whole month will be a wash for just about everyone except the big mountains.  I would still be cautious about parts of canada as it seems the modified pacific air has had no problems hitting much farther north than normal this year. I guess if he get far enough you will eventually find snow arctic circle perhaps  :sled: ???

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^ And shortly after that warm system, we start tapping real arctic air.

Ir's going to be hard for arctic air to make it into the CONUS given the huge vortex over the Bering Strait, which extends at times into Kamchatka on the west side and the Beaufort Sea to the east. That "black hole" is ensuring that mild Pacific air moves across Canada. The height anomaly posted above shows that the 540dm contour extends as far north as central Hudson Bay and the tip of extreme northern Quebec.

We're seeing a sort of hybrid ENSO pattern with the strong North Pacific low expected in El Nino combined with a -PNA developing mid-month, which is more typical of La Nina. Neither of the features, unfortunqtely, brings cold or snow to the Midwest, Lakes, or Northeast.

Climo shows that the strong NPAC low present in El Nino winters tends to retrograde from its current position in the Gulf of Alaska in December to an Aleutian low by February. This would support more of a -EPO/+PNA and a more wintry pattern, as is typical in Nino February and March periods.

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Ir's going to be hard for arctic air to make it into the CONUS given the huge vortex over the Bering Strait, which extends at times into Kamchatka on the west side and the Beaufort Sea to the east. That "black hole" is ensuring that mild Pacific air moves across Canada. The height anomaly posted above shows that the 540dm contour extends as far north as central Hudson Bay and the tip of extreme northern Quebec.

We're seeing a sort of hybrid ENSO pattern with the strong North Pacific low expected in El Nino combined with a -PNA developing mid-month, which is more typical of La Nina. Neither of the features, unfortunqtely, brings cold or snow to the Midwest, Lakes, or Northeast.

Climo shows that the strong NPAC low present in El Nino winters tends to retrograde from its current position in the Gulf of Alaska in December to an Aleutian low by February. This would support more of a -EPO/+PNA and a more wintry pattern, as is typical in Nino February and March periods.

 

Well said.

My point on the trough is that it is very broad. 

Only need low 30s for a good snowstorm. Rather have an active pattern, whether it is rain or snow vs. cold, dry and suppressed.

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This whole month will be a wash for just about everyone except the big mountains.  I would still be cautious about parts of canada as it seems the modified pacific air has had no problems hitting much farther north than normal this year. I guess if he get far enough you will eventually find snow arctic circle perhaps  :sled: ???

Crazy to see even the Keweenaw with highs in the 40s through this week....just bizarre

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Crazy to see even the Keweenaw with highs in the 40s through this week....just bizarre

A few dfferent forcasts next week have my area around 50! Un-believable for this late in the year.  Looking at long range we could be entering X-Mas week with less then 10" of snowfall which has to be pushing past records for Gaylord.

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A few dfferent forcasts next week have my area around 50! Un-believable for this late in the year.  Looking at long range we could be entering X-Mas week with less then 10" of snowfall which has to be pushing past records for Gaylord.

 

What's your average snowfall for November? Double digits?

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Well said.

My point on the trough is that it is very broad. 

Only need low 30s for a good snowstorm. Rather have an active pattern, whether it is rain or snow vs. cold, dry and suppressed.

Exactly. It will surely change in these next few blah weeks, but technically as of 12/3, Detroit is running at 300% of seasonal snowfall to data average, and Chicago is 625% :lmao: And it has been warm.

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I'd be all for one last severe weather outbreak. Then, it can snow all it wants until April 1st. Wouldn't it be pretty funny to have the first HIGH risk of the year in December? Truly 2015ing. Not saying by any means it will be HIGH risk or even have a risk at all. Just banter/speculation

330 am update: SPC mentions an active pattern beginning in the 8-9 day time frame

 

 

If you want truly 2015ing, try a high risk in December that also busts, and certainly even that's a possibility if the EURO happens verbatim.

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