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2015-16 Total New England Snow Table

Kevin W

By Kevin W,
in New England

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  • 3 weeks later...
J.Spin

J.Spin

Posted
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Can anyone get within 20 inches of J.Spin? I guess that the goal every year.

 

10-11 is funny. He's about 90" clear of the next highest.. :lol:

 

Man, what a weenie spot below 500'

 

We’ve talked about it before in the forum – the pass through the Northern Greens carved by the Winooski might be the snowiest place in all of New England below 500’.  The annual snowfall seems to average somewhere up in the 150”-160” range based on what I’ve documented so far over nine complete snow seasons.  The only other pass through the Greens that I can think of at this low of an elevation would be the Lamoille Valley to the north (someone with more knowledge may be able to clarify that).  So with the Northern Greens as the snowiest area of New England, there aren’t really that many other low elevation spots to consider.  I don’t think any of us made the full connection about how snowy it was here before I started documenting the snowfall, but Powderfreak has noticed on multiple occasions how you can drive through the high point of the pass cutting through the Greens on I-89, and it will be the only spot in the area where it’s snowing.

 

I doubt there’s anywhere in the mainland Western U.S. that’s even in contention, since the only places that low in elevation would be right along the coast; you’d have to go up toward places like Alyeska in Alaska, where they report an average of 208” at 250’ to get into something low elevation and snowy out there.  So, outside of the Great Lakes, this could be the snowiest sub-500’ area in the lower 48.

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powderfreak

powderfreak

Posted
Posted

 Can anyone get within 20 inches of J.Spin? I guess that the goal every year.

10-11 is funny. He's about 90" clear of the next highest.. :lol:

 

Man, what a weenie spot below 500'

 

Yeah he's in a special place, but he's not entirely alone.  In 10-11, Underhill (CoCoRAHS VT-CH-4) at 900ft had 223".  That's an obscene amount of flakes to fall at under 1,000ft.  Same with Cambridge at 205", in the Lamoille River Valley (J.Spin mentioned that area). 

 

I tend to think I get a lot of snow but J.Spin will always beat me.  Its just geography.  Its not like SNE where a couple events break a certain way and a lower average spot can beat a higher average spot.  This is just how it shakes out around here, all the time.  The gradients and locations are very stable.  Like in the map below, you can see J.Spin's 196".  If you just saw that value on the snow table you might be like, I don't know that sounds excessive.  But then you look at the data and see 182" to his south and 200"+ to his north (all at spots below 1,500ft), and it fits nicely.  Then you look at the east and west slopes and see 150-180" within like 5-7 miles of the Spine on either side (I fall into that category).  Again, it fits nicely.

 

Another thing is looking at this map in particular...there's a 100" difference within Washington County alone.  Think about that and try to wrap your head around that.  These are inhabited elevations under 1,500ft, and there is a 100-inch gradient within a single county.  I always chuckle when people in other areas are amazed or pissed off because in an event they got 10" more or less than someone "just 15 miles away!"  Up here within 15 miles you go from the BTV airport to the summit of Mount Mansfield.  Its hard for folks to grasp that don't live up here sometimes...you can actually do a 10-15" per mile annual average change. 

 

Figure8.png

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ono

ono

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We’ve talked about it before in the forum – the pass through the Northern Greens carved by the Winooski might be the snowiest place in all of New England below 500’.  The annual snowfall seems to average somewhere up in the 150”-160” range based on what I’ve documented so far over nine complete snow seasons.  The only other pass through the Greens that I can think of at this low of an elevation would be the Lamoille Valley to the north (someone with more knowledge may be able to clarify that).  So with the Northern Greens as the snowiest area of New England, there aren’t really that many other low elevation spots to consider.  I don’t think any of us made the full connection about how snowy it was here before I started documenting the snowfall, but Powderfreak has noticed on multiple occasions how you can drive through the high point of the pass cutting through the Greens on I-89, and it will be the only spot in the area where it’s snowing.

 

I doubt there’s anywhere in the mainland Western U.S. that’s even in contention, since the only places that low in elevation would be right along the coast; you’d have to go up toward places like Alyeska in Alaska, where they report an average of 208” at 250’ to get into something low elevation and snowy out there.  So, outside of the Great Lakes, this could be the snowiest sub-500’ area in the lower 48.

After two seasons living in Waterbury/Stowe, I would have to agree (anecdotally) that the stretch up from the Bolton Flats towards exit 10 in Waterbury shows a unique, localized increase in Snowfall at the low elevation there. On those upslope days/nights (nights especially as I recall), it's definitely snowing up through there (at times, noticeably intensely), then shuts off as you get into the lee of the mountains along Rt. 100 going north into Stowe in the valley. Even when I was living up high (~1300') against the Worcester Range, it often wouldn't be snowing as much as it was on I-89 around the Bolton Flats area.

 

It's possible that Rt. 15 around Cambridge may get a fair bit of snow as well, but there may be something about the local topography around the Bolton/Waterbury line that acts as a strong orographic funnel- as the Lamoille Valley /Rt.15 is a bit more broad and doesn't quite have the orographic hole-in-the-wall of Camels Hump/Bolton/Mansfield.  Perhaps Montgomery up north may get something close?  That's pretty low, ~500', but it doesn't quite have the topography directly nearby- only slightly better latitude.  Probably on par...

 

on another note- speaking of snow totals, if one travels ~5 miles north of the border, and ~10 miles as the crow flies from Jay Peak, Mount Sutton reports an average snowfall of 205". That's a pretty eye-opening disparity- 1400' base, 3000' peak, yet they only report 60% of Jay Peak's 355" average.  Jay may be liberal in their reporting, but Sutton must be under-reporting. That's a southern-VT- Okemo/Mount Snow average snowfall. Doesn't add up. 

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J.Spin

J.Spin

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on another note- speaking of snow totals, if one travels ~5 miles north of the border, and ~10 miles as the crow flies from Jay Peak, Mount Sutton reports an average snowfall of 205". That's a pretty eye-opening disparity- 1400' base, 3000' peak, yet they only report 60% of Jay Peak's 355" average.  Jay may be liberal in their reporting, but Sutton must be under-reporting. That's a southern-VT- Okemo/Mount Snow average snowfall. Doesn't add up.

 

LOL, ono, it’s funny you mention that Jay Peak/Mont Sutton snowfall disparity – you would probably love to read a thread from this summer at First Tracks Online:

 

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11837

 

PF, Me, Tony Crocker, and some of the others probably have two full pages in the thread on just that topic – it’s got to be the most extensive discussion I’ve ever seen on the Jay Peak/Mont Sutton snowfall disparity.  You should definitely check it out.

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ono

ono

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LOL, ono, it’s funny you mention that Jay Peak/Mont Sutton snowfall disparity – you would probably love to read a thread from this summer at First Tracks Online:

 

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11837

 

PF, Me, Tony Crocker, and some of the others probably have two full pages in the thread on just that topic – it’s got to be the most extensive discussion I’ve ever seen on the Jay Peak/Mont Sutton snowfall disparity.  You should definitely check it out.

That was a damn near hour of good reading- down the rabbit hole.

 

As for Sutton, I just can't buy the orientation argument.  I've spent many days in the backcountry of the Greens on lesser-known peaks in a similar west-east orientation and elevation- never experienced a marked drop in snow/base. In my experience, at that elevation/orientation, it must be how they measure.  

 

As for the points as far as the source of the N VT snowfall- generally, Nor'easters aren't the goods (but we'll take 'em)... early/late/temperature dependent north/south storms, Alberta Clippers as a constant, regular, varying intensity source of snow, and the cutoff coastals that park over the Maritimes/Gulf of Maine that bring the beloved 'pinwheel' of multi-day upslope- it seems like a multitude of systems that really put N VT on top. But man, a pattern of clippers or a cut off low- waiting...

 

great links- what a discussion! But back to the point, yeah, your spot may be in contention for the highest sub-500' elevation snowfall in the lower 48.  

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ono

ono

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Another reason that JSpin comes out on top is because there are very people who are as diligent and meticulous with their measurements as he is.

That's a great point.  The methodical, scientific approach is much appreciated.  But who's out there that can match such a location, even with such an approach- it would be great!

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powderfreak

powderfreak

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That was a damn near hour of good reading- down the rabbit hole.

As for Sutton, I just can't buy the orientation argument. I've spent many days in the backcountry of the Greens on lesser-known peaks in a similar west-east orientation and elevation- never experienced a marked drop in snow/base. In my experience, at that elevation/orientation, it must be how they measure.

As for the points as far as the source of the N VT snowfall- generally, Nor'easters aren't the goods (but we'll take 'em)... early/late/temperature dependent north/south storms, Alberta Clippers as a constant, regular, varying intensity source of snow, and the cutoff coastals that park over the Maritimes/Gulf of Maine that bring the beloved 'pinwheel' of multi-day upslope- it seems like a multitude of systems that really put N VT on top. But man, a pattern of clippers or a cut off low- waiting...

great links- what a discussion! But back to the point, yeah, your spot may be in contention for the highest sub-500' elevation snowfall in the lower 48.

Sutton has to be under reporting. I agree there's no way it's that different. That area of Quebec gets a ton of snow, just as much as adjacent VT areas.

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moneypitmike

moneypitmike

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Hi all,

Once again, I will list snow totals for New England members for the upcoming season. I know it's early, but I'd like to start building the list of participants ahead of time. New users, if you want to contribute to this table, I will need your location. Past users, if nothing has changed, all you need to do is let me know if you want to be a part of it this year. (in this thread) The username and password is the same as it has been for those who update totals on their own, which I prefer, but have no problem updating for those who do not want to. Send me a PM if you need the username and password. Also, I encourage any additions or updates for PAST seasons. Just post them in here.

 

Here is this year's table

 

Hi Kevin.  I would like to take part again.  thanks!

 

Mike

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  • 5 weeks later...
Ginx snewx

Ginx snewx

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Hi all,

Once again, I will list snow totals for New England members for the upcoming season. I know it's early, but I'd like to start building the list of participants ahead of time. New users, if you want to contribute to this table, I will need your location. Past users, if nothing has changed, all you need to do is let me know if you want to be a part of it this year. (in this thread) The username and password is the same as it has been for those who update totals on their own, which I prefer, but have no problem updating for those who do not want to. Send me a PM if you need the username and password. Also, I encourage any additions or updates for PAST seasons. Just post them in here.

Here is this year's table

can you message me the log in password please
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