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Winter 2015-16 Discussion


Hoosier

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way to textbook. this is where these models fail.

Well...it's just guidance. JAMSTEC's NOV forecast for DJF has given the correct "general" idea or hints for 6 out of the last 8 N. Americam winters. Missed badly only for winter of 2010-11 & 2012-13.

I don't know of another seasonal model that has done that. So...no its NOT to be taken as gospel, but I'd pay attention to the hints, especially with all the other major seasonal models in general agreement. Only the CRAPPY CFS v. 2 stands alone for this winter.

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Well...it's just guidance. JAMSTEC's NOV forecast for DJF has given the correct "general" idea or hints for 6 out of the last 8 N. Americam winters. Missed badly only for winter of 2010-11 & 2012-13.

I don't know of another seasonal model that has done that. So...no its NOT to be taken as gospel, but I'd pay attention to the hints, especially with all the other major seasonal models in general agreement. Only the CRAPPY CFS v. 2 stands alone for this winter.

Not to mention the Jamstec does have its month to month slight variations when it updates, it's not like it's a carbon copy deal month to month. And you hit the nail on the head regarding the CFS being alone. What was the CFS forecasting last November for winter 2014-15? A MILD winter in the midwest.
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It doesn't change much for the entire winter -- only the CMC2 follows it somewhat.

 

The NMME average for DJF: th.NMME_ensemble_tmp2m_us_season1.png

 

 

 

JAN

 

th.NMME_ensemble_tmp2m_us_lead2.png

 

 

 

FEB

 

th.NMME_ensemble_tmp2m_us_lead3.png

 

 

MAR

 

th.NMME_ensemble_tmp2m_us_lead4.png

 

 

That's a lot of change.  Notice the ridge is over E. Canada during DEC but begins to be pulled west in JAN & even more in FEB & MAR which the above normal anomalies indicate. The only model that's really out there on it's lonesome is the sucky CFS v.2.

 

That's a good forecast since that's exactly what some of the best analog packages show that have the strongest Nino's all the way back to 1896.

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JAN

th.NMME_ensemble_tmp2m_us_lead2.png

FEB

th.NMME_ensemble_tmp2m_us_lead3.png

MAR

th.NMME_ensemble_tmp2m_us_lead4.png

That's a lot of change. Notice the ridge is over E. Canada during DEC but begins to be pulled west in JAN & even more in FEB & MAR which the above normal anomalies indicate. The only model that's really out there on it's lonesome is the sucky CFS v.2.

That's a good forecast since that's exactly what some of the best analog packages show that have the strongest Nino's all the way back to 1896.

Another thing to remember is to always look at the grid. It's easy to see reds and blues and make assumptions. Several models show modestly mild....cfs shows all out torch.
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Certainly doesn't look like the CFS is alone with an above normal winter for the midwest. Starting to look more like that NASA forecast is alone on an island.

 

 

Virtually all of the seasonal models that I've checked are warmer than average to some degree for the Lakes.  Most are more modest and not torches for the DJF period, but with the skill of the seasonal models, I don't think anything should be ruled out.

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Certainly doesn't look like the CFS is alone with an above normal winter for the midwest. Starting to look more like that NASA forecast is alone on an island.

The cfs is certainly not alone in forecasting above normal temps in the midwest this winter. It is alone in how far above normal the temps are that it is forecasting. A lot of models forecast things in the +0.5 to +2C range....cfs is forecasting +3 to 5C.

The jamstec shows slightly mild while nasa cold, but the jamstec look is a lot closer to NASA than cfs.

I'm not worried about a mild winter. I'm more worried about precip. We can get plenty of snow in a mild winter or be dry in a cold winter. Mild doesn't scare me

..dry does lol. Or should I say the COMBINATION of mild and dry. A dry tundra winter like last year is at least covered in snow. Mild and dry is meh. Luckily a stormy pattern appears to be setting in.

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Certainly doesn't look like the CFS is alone with an above normal winter for the midwest. Starting to look more like that NASA forecast is alone on an island.

The CFS is all alone for the DJF forecast for the CONUS...not just one region. UKMET, JAMSTEC, EURO, NMME, CMC, GFDL , CMC are all at odds with the CFS with important features...for the CONUS, not just your backyard.

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The CFS is all alone for the DJF forecast for the CONUS...not just one region. UKMET, JAMSTEC, EURO, NMME, CMC, GFDL , CMC are all at odds with the CFS with important features...for the CONUS, not just your backyard.

Yes I know it is warm for KY and you want snow. By the way right now the CFS is leading the charge with this current month so far so it isn't exactly clueless like some would want to say.

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Yes I know it is warm for KY and you want snow. By the way right now the CFS is leading the charge with this current month so far so it isn't exactly clueless like some would want to say.

 

 

Its monthly forecasts usually aren't bad (especially once you get toward the end of the preceding month) but I'm not so sure about the track record of the seasonal.

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Its monthly forecasts usually aren't bad (especially once you get toward the end of the preceding month) but I'm not so sure about the track record of the seasonal.

Well I'm sure you seen the CFS for Dec, if that is how we start this winter, it is going to take a bit to get back to even near normal.

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Yes I know it is warm for KY and you want snow. By the way right now the CFS is leading the charge with this current month so far so it isn't exactly clueless like some would want to say.

 

It's has nothing to do with what I want. Just go look through it's track from previous winters. If I really thought this would be a blowtorch winter I'd say so.  The strongest Ninos since 1896 do not suggest an all out torch for the entire winter.  Tell me one reason besides the CFS v.2 we should expect a winter depicted by the CFS v.2.  Until you can do that please do not accuse me of wishcasting.

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One thing I like is that it doesn't appear like we will have to worry too much about suppression going forward this month and into December.  I think we will have our share of activity, though cold air/storm track could be a problem and it's possible that the Plains are more favored for wintry weather than most of us.  However, that potential system out around day 9-10 should be watched for a possible accumulating synoptic snow in the region.

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Yes, I follow it. December being warmer than average wouldn't really be a surprise.

A milder than normal December is kind of expected. If there's one kind of "consensus" we can get from the plethora of models and forecasts it's that December will be the warmest month of winter and February the coldest. There's no way to spin it though, cfs is an outlier with HOW warm it shows winter.
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Well I'm sure you seen the CFS for Dec, if that is how we start this winter, it is going to take a bit to get back to even near normal.

 

 

Here's nothing but the strongest El Nino winters since 1896.  Here's the JFM temps:

 

IXYDNpo.png

 

It seems one would have historical support to assume the CFS v.2 is wrong & most of the other guidance is closer to reality.  Many of the other seasonal models have a look that's a little closer to what that analog blend looks like.

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