Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,587
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    BarryStantonGBP
    Newest Member
    BarryStantonGBP
    Joined

Possible strong/super El Niño forming?


snowman19

Recommended Posts

Latest values:

Region 1+2: 2.4 (+0.1) Region 3: 2.9 (no change) Region 3.4: 2.9 (+0.1) Region 4: 1.7 (no change)

This ain't collapsing...

Since Friday, it would appear region 3.4 warmed again, up to +3.0C which is not surprising given the last WWB, SOI drop and kelvin wave. There may be a brief secondary peak, which is not at all unusual in very strong Ninos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 3.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Heh... latest daily SOI comes in at +30.70.

That's its highest figure since June 13, 2014 when it reached +31.28. Some of the guidance still forecasts a sharp fall in the SOI. Strongly negative values have often coincided with a trough in the southern U.S. So such an outcome would lend support to the growing body of guidance supporting possible troughing somewhere in the East.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heh... latest daily SOI comes in at +30.70.

That post was referring to the past -SOI burst burst man. And it's about to free fall negative again, the system is already in motion, the tone has been been set, this is the strongest Nino in history, it's an absolute beast, who cares at this point? History was made this year and its decline will be slow as we can see. Merry Christmas, better things to worry about tonight, go have fun, night
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That post was referring to the past -SOI burst burst man. And it's about to free fall negative again, the system is already in motion, the tone has been been set, this is the strongest Nino in history, it's an absolute beast, who cares at this point? History was made this year and its decline will be slow as we can see. Merry Christmas, better things to worry about tonight, go have fun, night

Merry Christmas to you and all others here :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

strongest el nino's using the JMA index...snowfall average temperature winter minimum...we need 20" to get into the black...that's possible with one or two good storms...this year is in the top seven and only 1982-83 got average snowfall and most of it came in one storm...

2014 had a +10...

ftp://www.coaps.fsu.edu/pub/JMA_SST_Index/jmasst1868-today.filter-5

+33...1997-98.....5.5".....39.6.....14

+29...2015-16................................

+28...1982-83...27.2".....37.9.....12

+23...1888-89...16.5".....32.7.......3

+22...1877-78.....8.1".....33.3.......7

+20...1972-73.....2.8".....35.8.......7

+19...1930-31...11.6".....33.8.....10

+18...1896-97...43.6".....32.7.......6

+16...1899-00...13.4".....33.4.......5

+16...1925-26...32.4".....32.0.......5

+15...1868-69...28.0".....33.0.......4...snowfall estimated...25.6" from Jan-Apr...

+14...1902-03...28.7".....32.0.......4

+14...1918-19.....3.8".....36.6.....10

+14...1987-88...19.1".....34.7.......5

+14...1991-92...12.6".....37.2.....11

+14...2009-10...51.4".....33.8.....13

+13...1911-12...29.5".....30.6......-3

+13...1965-66...21.4".....35.9.......8

+13...2006-07...12.4".....36.5.......8

+12...1957-58...44.7".....33.3.......3

+12...1951-52...19.7".....37.0.......8

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Given the ongoing pattern evolution debate, I took a look at the December cases that met the following criteria:

 

1. 500 mb height anomalies of 1σ or above the 1950-1995 mean in an area bounded by 35N-55N/60W-80W

2. December AO average of +0.75 or above

3. El Niño

 

The following December cases were available during the 1950-2014 period: 1982, 1994, and 2006. 1982-83 was the only case that featured a super El Niño.

 

With the requisite note about uncertainty given the small sample size, the following is a summary of outcomes:

 

1. All three cases saw December produce the warmest anomalies of meteorological winter in the East.

2. 2/3 cases saw the emergence of a mean trough in some part of the East during January.

3. 3/3 cases saw a mean trough somewhere in the East toward February.

4. 3/3 cases saw February wind up as the coldest month of meteorological winter relative to normal.

 

So far, the 500 mb pattern seems to be evolving toward something between January 1983 and January 1995, but at perhaps an accelerated pace given the forecast blocking.

 

In short, taking into consideration all of the above, it is reasonable to state that the warmest part of meteorological winter is ending (pretty obvious given December's historic warmth) and that a pattern more conducive to cold outbreaks is evolving. February offers the highest potential for the desired combination (at least by many of us) of cold and snow.

 

ENSO12282015_2.jpg

 

ENSO12282015_3.jpg

 

Finally, the pattern evolution is already underway. The SOI has returned to strongly negative values. The PNA has gone positive. The El Niño may be starting to decay at a somewhat faster rate (especially in the eastern ENSO regions) if the latest weekly figures are representative. This stage of the ENSO's decline is important, as the 1982-83 ENSO event had a later tri-monthly peak. A somewhat faster decline at a somewhat earlier stage could produce a colder outcome than what one saw during winter 1982-83 during the latter part of January and February.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Latest numbers:

Nino tanking in the east.

1.6, 2.6, 2.7, 1.5.

This East-based fade is a big victory for the guidance. Over the past month, Regions 1+2 and 3 have cooled by 0.8°C and 0.4°C respectively. Regions 3.4 and 4 have each cooled by 0.3°C. The El Niño has clearly peaked and is fading, with the greatest cooling in the East. This development will likely influence the El Niño's forcing allowing for potentially more opportunities for a cold end to winter. Things could still go wrong e.g., if Region 1+2's cooling slows or stalls, but right now that does not appear to be a high probability outcome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paging snowman and his never-ending kelvin waves that will warm Nino 1.2.

There is a massive WWB underway.

28C is magic mark for convection you can see in concert with the big westerly wind burst a massive reversal of trades incredible area of near 32C ssts pushing East along the SH side.

There is also unprecedented warmth North of enso 1-2 with a huge area of convection level ssts.

Solar insolation is again increasing over the NH side. This nino isn't going to fade fast at all.

If this trade set up doesnt relent we will see a 3rd year nino.

qLYnYZD.jpg

oQcBWuu.jpg

N1KrAP8.jpg

txDS1Hh.jpg

f9XpxbI.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A quick note:

 

Strong WWBs have occurred as some El Niño events have been fading. WWBs during the latter stages of an El Niño may contribute to the slowed decay of such events. Otherwise, such events might rapidly collapse.

 

For example, during the 1997-98 super El Niño event, strong WWBs occurred during the January 10-February 6, February 11-19, February 22-March 29, and April 23-May 4 timeframes in 1998. El Niño conditions persisted through May, June saw Region 3.4 develop cool anomalies, and then Region 3.4's anomaly fell below -0.50°C in July.

 

IMO, given the latest weekly ENSO data, it is increasingly clear that the current event has peaked. It is now fading, with the fastest cooling in the East. The guidance supports a continuation of that trend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a massive WWB underway.

28C is magic mark for convection you can see in concert with the big westerly wind burst a massive reversal of trades incredible area of near 32C ssts pushing East along the SH side.

There is also unprecedented warmth North of enso 1-2 with a huge area of convection level ssts.

Solar insolation is again increasing over the NH side. This nino isn't going to fade fast at all.

If this trade set up doesnt relent we will see a 3rd year nino.

qLYnYZD.jpg

oQcBWuu.jpg

N1KrAP8.jpg

txDS1Hh.jpg

f9XpxbI.jpg

 

 

NCEP disagrees with where you/they think we force . 

 

Which 2 look the same ?

 

 

Forces bet 155 -175 which is consistent with most basin wide analogs . 

winter-outlook-en-olr.png

 

 

 

 

winter-outlook-en-patterns.png?w=446&h=1

 

glbPrecSeaInd1.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't say anything about forcing I was merely talking about the near future of this el nino.

The 1998 epac sub surface had a massive cold pool.

This year the warm pool is still very large and the cold pool is much weaker and further West

 

OK was not sure what this was 

 

 "28C is magic mark for convection "

 

We have been forcing closer to 31 c waters 

 

olra_last30days-3plots.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The tao/triton subsurface data shows the warm pool between the dateline and 150E starting to grow in response to the off the CHARTS WWB TAKING PLACE THAT IS ONLY FORECASTED TO EXPAND IN SIZE LATITUDE AND LONGITUDE WISE THE next 10 days.

With solar insolation starting to rise again at the equator heat will start to pool again in response to these wwbs.

Can anyone link me to historic. Zonal wind anomalies so they can be compared to other big events??

Just thought it was worth noting how ridiculously warm the subtropical East PAC is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It did. ENSO Region 1+2 warmed by 0.2°C and ENSO Region 3 warmed by 0.1°C in the just-released weekly numbers. Regions 3.4 and 4 cooled by 0.1°C each.

Don does it really matter anymore for this winter? We are halfway through, and the winter will end with a strong Nino.I think as we head toward summer it will fade,could effect hurricane season with a possible Nina

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don does it really matter anymore for this winter? We are halfway through, and the winter will end with a strong Nino.I think as we head toward summer it will fade,could effect hurricane season with a possible Nina

Sorry about the delay, as I missed this message.

 

I agree that this winter will end with a strong El Niño. A rapid shift into La Niño could promote an active hurricane season, as happened in 1998. A slow fade of the El Niño with a delayed onset of La Niña, though could dampen it, as occurred in 1983.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Latest numbers:

Nino 1.2 continues to drop. Down to +1.4 (-0.4)

Nino 3 is up for the second week to +2.8 (+0.1)

Nino 3.4 is unchanged at +2.6

Nino 4 is down to +1.3 (-0.1)

It's a nice collapse in 1.2. It's a loss of 1.2 C over the last 4 weeks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JUST PUTTING A BOW ON THIS . 

 

We can see the collapse east to west as well as where the best upward motion has set up during the month of Jan .

 

Going forward into FEB expect more of the same  and at 500 there is a trough in the GOA a POS PNA extending over the top with a mean trough in the SE .

 

Many of us worked in there since May making these very arguments .

 

It is easy to see why we/where we are forcing relative to the cooler E  region .  

 

 

 

56ad0e486eac5_globe_cdas1_anom__1_(19)JA

 

30SEP2015 23.4 2.8 27.6 2.8 29.1 2.4 29.7 1.1
07OCT2015 23.4 2.7 27.7 2.8 29.1 2.4 29.7 1.0
14OCT2015 23.3 2.5 27.5 2.6 29.1 2.4 29.7 1.1
21OCT2015 23.1 2.2 27.5 2.6 29.2 2.5 29.9 1.3
28OCT2015 23.4 2.3 27.7 2.8 29.4 2.7 30.0 1.4
04NOV2015 23.4 2.1 27.8 2.8 29.5 2.8 30.3 1.7
11NOV2015 23.5 2.0 27.9 3.0 29.7 3.0 30.3 1.7
18NOV2015 23.8 2.1 28.0 3.0 29.7 3.1 30.4 1.8
25NOV2015 24.4 2.4 28.0 3.0 29.6 3.0 30.3 1.8
02DEC2015 24.7 2.4 27.9 2.9 29.5 2.9 30.2 1.7
09DEC2015 24.8 2.3 28.0 2.9 29.4 2.8 30.2 1.7
16DEC2015 25.2 2.4 28.0 2.9 29.5 2.9 30.2 1.7
23DEC2015 25.2 2.1 28.0 2.7 29.3 2.7 30.0 1.6
30DEC2015 25.2 1.6 28.0 2.6 29.3 2.7 29.9 1.5
06JAN2016 25.7 1.8 28.1 2.7 29.1 2.6 29.7 1.4
13JAN2016 25.7 1.4 28.3 2.8 29.2 2.6 29.6 1.3
20JAN2016 26.0 1.4 28.2 2.5 29.1 2.5 29.6 1.4

 

olra_last30days-3plots.gif

glbPrecMonInd1.gif

 

 

 

NMME_ensemble_prate_lead1.png

 

 

 

 

 

post-525-0-44810800-1445449906.png

 

 

post-525-0-32101400-1445449818.png

 

FEB 1958 IS ON THE TABLE .  ( KUDOS TO TOM IF IT HAPPENS  ) .

 

JUST WOW AT THE CALLS OVER AND OVER IN HERE OF 72/73  97/98 .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...