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NNE Winter: just can't compete with Maple Hollow.


eekuasepinniW

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Event totals: 1.7” Snow/0.15” L.E.

 

After that additional burst of accumulation yesterday, we had some light snow continue into the evening, but nothing that fell at a rate to outpace settling.  So the data above will represent the totals for this event.  Our location is usually good for some sort of snow accumulation in October, but the 1.7” thus far puts this October on the higher end of things, and it’s the most we’ve seen since the 2008-2009 season.  Also of note was a temperature of 20 F when I was doing observations this morning, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it got down into the teens at some point, which is pretty cold for our location in October.

 

Details from the 7:00 A.M. Waterbury observations:

 

New Snow: 0.6 inches

New Liquid: 0.02 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 30.0

Snow Density: 3.3% H2O

Temperature: 20 F

Sky: Clear

Snow at the stake: Trace

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No melting today. 'Tis the season...

 

DSCN0583.jpg

 

woke up to 19F.

 

Sweet shot.

 

I noticed the same thing...snow even in town stuck around in shaded areas and north facing roof-tops despite temps in the low 40s. 

 

On the mountain, its snow covered still to the base area at 1,500ft on the main Mansfield area (east/north facing) while Spruce Peak (south facing) starting melting pretty high in elevation.  Amazing what the sun can still do this time of year...anything in full sun melts out, but in the shade, it doesn't go anywhere even with above freezing temperatures.

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Event totals: 1.7” Snow/0.15” L.E.

 

After that additional burst of accumulation yesterday, we had some light snow continue into the evening, but nothing that fell at a rate to outpace settling.  So the data above will represent the totals for this event.  Our location is usually good for some sort of snow accumulation in October, but the 1.7” thus far puts this October on the higher end of things, and it’s the most we’ve seen since the 2008-2009 season.  Also of note was a temperature of 20 F when I was doing observations this morning, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it got down into the teens at some point, which is pretty cold for our location in October.

 

Details from the 7:00 A.M. Waterbury observations:

 

New Snow: 0.6 inches

New Liquid: 0.02 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 30.0

Snow Density: 3.3% H2O

Temperature: 20 F

Sky: Clear

Snow at the stake: Trace

 

Nice, Jay.  I was wondering what your total was.  Had 1.3" here on elevated surface, and I bet the SWE was fairly low as the flakes in those squalls were surprisingly fluffy.  Big flakes stack up quickly and nicely on cold (elevated) surfaces this time of year.

 

Did you see the Waterbury 4.6 NNE station had 2.1" this morning?  That's directly between the two of us, and looks like that was the "jackpot" so to speak. 

 

Was surprised the snow stuck around in the shady spots today at home despite temps in the low 40s.

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Nice, Jay.  I was wondering what your total was.  Had 1.3" here on elevated surface, and I bet the SWE was fairly low as the flakes in those squalls were surprisingly fluffy.  Big flakes stack up quickly and nicely on cold (elevated) surfaces this time of year.

 

Yeah, this was a fun one, feeling a bit more robust than the average October event in the valleys.  Basically there were increasing opportunities for accumulation as the weekend went on, and you definitely had to pay attention once those temperatures started coming down later on Saturday.  It was a great primer to get some of the measurement equipment out, but I still need some decent fall days to get the yard buttoned up.  Yesterday was the kind of day I’d like to see to get things done – it turned into a real beauty by the afternoon.

 

Did you see the Waterbury 4.6 NNE station had 2.1" this morning?  That's directly between the two of us, and looks like that was the "jackpot" so to speak.

 

Yes, I saw that you posted that info.  I hadn’t had a chance to look around at totals, so thanks for keeping everyone apprised.

 

In terms of riding and mountain accumulations, this seemed like one of those middling October events - the ones that fall between a couple of inches that allow for just junkboard/grass skiing and those 1 to 2-footers where appropriate slopes are obviously covered.  I was busy writing an exam, so I couldn’t get out, but it looked like those depths at MRG were decent enough for some fun turns.  If I hadn’t had anything else to do, I think the accumulations were enough that they would have tempted me out to poke around for at least a hike in the snow with some turns if the coverage was there.

 

The great news is that these events should only get more frequent and robust as we head through the next couple of months, barring some horrible pattern.  It looks like the next potential shot of snow is about a week out based on what I’m seeing on the GFS and ECMWF.

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In terms of riding and mountain accumulations, this seemed like one of those middling October events - the ones that fall between a couple of inches that allow for just junkboard/grass skiing and those 1 to 2-footers where appropriate slopes are obviously covered.  I was busy writing an exam, so I couldn’t get out, but it looked like those depths at MRG were decent enough for some fun turns.  If I hadn’t had anything else to do, I think the accumulations were enough that they would have tempted me out to poke around for at least a hike in the snow with some turns if the coverage was there.

 

From what I saw at Stowe and also from photos from Smuggs, this event was more impressive in the mountain valleys (for the 1-2" accumulations) than at the peaks where 3-4" this time of year isn't as anomalous.  The skiing at Stowe definitely was junkboard in nature.  

 

MRG was really the only place I saw reports that really looked skiable, and from reliable reports they picked up 5-6".  Radar confirmed Lake Champlain enhanced band had developed overnight into the Camels Hump to MRG region, with some heavier squalls.  Locally they seemed to pick up to twice as much as some of the other local mountains that were more in the 3" range.  As you know, there's a big difference in 3" and 6" when it comes to early season turns. 

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Flakes are flying this morning... though there's really nothing on radar. 

 

MVL picking it up though:

 

KMVL 231254Z AUTO 35009KT 6SM -SN BKN023 OVC029 03/M02 A3026 AO2 SNB51 SLP252 P0000 T00331017

 

We had a little snizzle here in the noosk.

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From what I saw at Stowe and also from photos from Smuggs, this event was more impressive in the mountain valleys (for the 1-2" accumulations) than at the peaks where 3-4" this time of year isn't as anomalous.  The skiing at Stowe definitely was junkboard in nature.  

 

MRG was really the only place I saw reports that really looked skiable, and from reliable reports they picked up 5-6".  Radar confirmed Lake Champlain enhanced band had developed overnight into the Camels Hump to MRG region, with some heavier squalls.  Locally they seemed to pick up to twice as much as some of the other local mountains that were more in the 3" range.  As you know, there's a big difference in 3" and 6" when it comes to early season turns. 

I may be just imagining this, but it seems to be early season, like november-december, mrv area gets more enhanced upslope and then as the season progresses it shifts north and you guys and jay kill us.  anyone else notice this?

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I may be just imagining this, but it seems to be early season, like november-december, mrv area gets more enhanced upslope and then as the season progresses it shifts north and you guys and jay kill us.  anyone else notice this?

 

I'm not sure there's really a pattern, aside from the annual average snowfall increasing as you head north.  The main early season wildcard is any Lake Champlain enhancement, which usually asserts itself in a narrow cellular structure.  In my experience, the area around MRG probably benefits the most of this...not even as far south as Sugarbush's Lincoln Peak.  It seems Camels Hump to MRG and Mt Ellen can get lit up especially with a cold airmass over the lake on NW winds.   That's probably what you are thinking of.  We'll often have events that show the normal south to north gradient, but occasionally MRG will pull like a 10" when the rest do 6" if the lake gets involved.  But yeah that decreases quickly as we head deeper into winter and the lake cools.

 

That would definitely give an added benefit for that area early in the season if the airmass is very cold relative to the lake temperatures.  Other than that, the climo precipitation distribution of upslope precipitation increases as you head north, so I feel in any given event, the nod usually is given to the north except there are those wildcard factors like the lake that may enhance the MRG area.

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I'm not sure there's really a pattern, aside from the annual average snowfall increasing as you head north.  The main early season wildcard is any Lake Champlain enhancement, which usually asserts itself in a narrow cellular structure.  In my experience, the area around MRG probably benefits the most of this...not even as far south as Sugarbush's Lincoln Peak.  It seems Camels Hump to MRG and Mt Ellen can get lit up especially with a cold airmass over the lake on NW winds.   That's probably what you are thinking of.  We'll often have events that show the normal south to north gradient, but occasionally MRG will pull like a 10" when the rest do 6" if the lake gets involved.  But yeah that decreases quickly as we head deeper into winter and the lake cools.

 

That would definitely give an added benefit for that area early in the season if the airmass is very cold relative to the lake temperatures.  Other than that, the climo precipitation distribution of upslope precipitation increases as you head north, so I feel in any given event, the nod usually is given to the north except there are those wildcard factors like the lake that may enhance the MRG area.

ok so i'm not totally nuts.  I'm going to try and keep track this year but its difficult with the vagaries of measurements of the upslope snowfalls.

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ok so i'm not totally nuts.  I'm going to try and keep track this year but its difficult with the vagaries of measurements of the upslope snowfalls.

 

No you aren't, haha.  There's definitely a higher likely hood that the Greens south of I-89 pull off a surprise on NW earlier in the season if they get that Lake Champlain connection.  Its another factor (a positive one) for the MRG/SB area that is only there in say NOV/DEC primarily. 

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ok so i'm not totally nuts.  I'm going to try and keep track this year but its difficult with the vagaries of measurements of the upslope snowfalls.

 

 

No you aren't, haha.  There's definitely a higher likely hood that the Greens south of I-89 pull off a surprise on NW earlier in the season if they get that Lake Champlain connection.  Its another factor (a positive one) for the MRG/SB area that is only there in say NOV/DEC primarily. 

Looking at the map, there appears to be a longer fetch over the lake available, with the correct wind direction, aimed at the MRG/SB area.

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Looking at the map, there appears to be a longer fetch over the lake available, with the correct wind direction, aimed at the MRG/SB area.

 

Yup, they are the only real Spine area that can with the right set-up, truly get "lake enhanced" upslope snow.  It really doesn't happen all that often, and it really can't sustain an event on its own, but that lake connection can cause a jackpot in that area in those extremely cold (relative to normal) air-masses early season with the right delivery (such as last weekend).

 

 

 

The funny thing is though, I still think the better lake enhanced upslope events come from streamers off Lake Ontario.  Funny to think that although we have a decent sized lake right next door, the best events come off the lake that's a long ways away.  Like last November, at Stowe we got two different nice events (totaling around 20" of fluff) from Ontario streamers upsloping into Mansfield on almost a WSW wind. That was during the same time/event that the Buffalo suburbs got like 6 feet of snow.

 

I know Sugarbush does well in those, too...so does Jay Peak.  You just have to have the band aligned right at you, so its basically getting lucky.  But it is funny how those Lake Ontario streamers can even reach deep into VT with squalls and snow showers...during the big Tug Hill events you can still get spots deep in VT that pick up several inches from the band.

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Yup, they are the only real Spine area that can with the right set-up, truly get "lake enhanced" upslope snow.  It really doesn't happen all that often, and it really can't sustain an event on its own, but that lake connection can cause a jackpot in that area in those extremely cold (relative to normal) air-masses early season with the right delivery (such as last weekend).

 

attachicon.gifUntitled.jpg

 

 

The funny thing is though, I still think the better lake enhanced upslope events come from streamers off Lake Ontario.  Funny to think that although we have a decent sized lake right next door, the best events come off the lake that's a long ways away.  Like last November, at Stowe we got two different nice events (totaling around 20" of fluff) from Ontario streamers upsloping into Mansfield on almost a WSW wind. That was during the same time/event that the Buffalo suburbs got like 6 feet of snow.

 

I know Sugarbush does well in those, too...so does Jay Peak.  You just have to have the band aligned right at you, so its basically getting lucky.  But it is funny how those Lake Ontario streamers can even reach deep into VT with squalls and snow showers...during the big Tug Hill events you can still get spots deep in VT that pick up several inches from the band.

 

It's all about that residence time. More time for an air parcel to pick up moisture. Ontario despite being farther away is orders of magnitude when you consider fetch. Secondarily, there is so much more heat capacity with Ontario than Champlain.

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It's all about that residence time. More time for an air parcel to pick up moisture. Ontario despite being farther away is orders of magnitude when you consider fetch. Secondarily, there is so much more heat capacity with Ontario than Champlain.

 

The heat capacity is an interesting aspect, hadn't though of that.  And yeah on the residence time...for the MRG/Sugarbush area they do have the ability to get about 10-12 miles of fetch I think (Champlain is 7 miles wide at its widest point).  Its not enough to cause an event on its own, but early season it can enhance an environment already favorable for upslope snows. 

 

I know BTV had a SPS out on Sunday morning last weekend for lake enhanced squalls that were dropping a quick 1-2" in under an hour along that favorable area of the Greens.  And last weekend would've been just the air mass to do it (near record cold, following a record warm September and record warm Lake Champlain so late in the season). 

 

But yeah, anything off Lake Ontario, even all the way over here in VT (after going over the Adirondacks) can still be fairly impressive when coupled with upslope. 

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The heat capacity is an interesting aspect, hadn't though of that.  And yeah on the residence time...for the MRG/Sugarbush area they do have the ability to get about 10-12 miles of fetch I think (Champlain is 7 miles wide at its widest point).  Its not enough to cause an event on its own, but early season it can enhance an environment already favorable for upslope snows. 

 

I know BTV had a SPS out on Sunday morning last weekend for lake enhanced squalls that were dropping a quick 1-2" in under an hour along that favorable area of the Greens.  And last weekend would've been just the air mass to do it (near record cold, following a record warm September and record warm Lake Champlain so late in the season). 

 

But yeah, anything off Lake Ontario, even all the way over here in VT (after going over the Adirondacks) can still be fairly impressive when coupled with upslope. 

 

Cayuga was very similar in that way. Under ideal circumstances it could create its own lake effect event, but usually it was a lake enhanced kind of thing. But then again Cayuga is as deep, but deeper on average than Champlain which is impressive for a smaller lake. I mean Cayuga is 15% of the surface area of Champlain, but over a third of the volume still, giving it a high heat capacity that lasts through winter.

 

That comes into play because you obviously want to maximize lake and air temp differences. As Champlain approaches freezing, that difference becomes smaller. It takes some serious cold to really bring Ontario towards the threat of freezing.

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Steamers off Ontario aren't uncommon even here. The one I remember the best was in 2007, before the VDay onslaught. There was a very narrow band of 8"-10" of pure fluff that seemed to bullseye Barre Town. Combined with the sleet filled base left from the MLK Day storm, we actually had snowmobiling in the midst of what had been a horrendous stretch for snow. Of course after VDay, we were inundated through March into April.

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Cayuga was very similar in that way. Under ideal circumstances it could create its own lake effect event, but usually it was a lake enhanced kind of thing. But then again Cayuga is as deep, but deeper on average than Champlain which is impressive for a smaller lake. I mean Cayuga is 15% of the surface area of Champlain, but over a third of the volume still, giving it a high heat capacity that lasts through winter.

 

That comes into play because you obviously want to maximize lake and air temp differences. As Champlain approaches freezing, that difference becomes smaller. It takes some serious cold to really bring Ontario towards the threat of freezing.

Yup, Cayuga is very deep. Keeps the immediate surrounding area a touch warmer. My 4 winters there, '85-'89, were awful for snow though.

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25.2°F and heavy frost again this am, 5 days in a row with frost, Looks like we won't be seeing much in the short term though moving forward as we will see some heavy rain and wind with the rems moving thru the next day or so

 

U. Maine's Cooperative Forestry Research Unit schedules their field trips months ahead of time, and this fall's trip is tomorrow (yay!), in the woodlands about 20 miles NW of Patten.  Oh well, have not gotten a good soaking in the woods for a while, guess it's time.  At least it's not near the downeast coast with the forecast there including 60 mph gusts, but it can be hard to hear the guy presenting when RA+ is spattering off the rainsuits all around.  As one of the forestry professors at Maine when I attended liked to say, "There's no such thing as inclement weather, just improper clothing."

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U. Maine's Cooperative Forestry Research Unit schedules their field trips months ahead of time, and this fall's trip is tomorrow (yay!), in the woodlands about 20 miles NW of Patten. Oh well, have not gotten a good soaking in the woods for a while, guess it's time. At least it's not near the downeast coast with the forecast there including 60 mph gusts, but it can be hard to hear the guy presenting when RA+ is spattering off the rainsuits all around. As one of the forestry professors at Maine when I attended liked to say, "There's no such thing as inclement weather, just improper clothing."

That sucks having to be out in those elements, I worked for years outdoors and had to deal with the rain, Use to wear a rain suit but would be just as wet from perspiring so would just take it off and deal with the elements, Dealing with snow, At least you would not get as wet unless it was a slop fest

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