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NNE Winter: just can't compete with Maple Hollow.

eekuasepinniW

By eekuasepinniW,
in New England

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powderfreak

powderfreak

Posted
Posted

So I've been curious about the climate normals of MVL and MPV, and every single month for over a year now (and longer), MPV has had lower temperature departures than MVL.  This is because some how the MVL climate norms are listed as equal to or colder than MPV which can't possibly be true given the fact that MPV is 400-500ft higher and radiates just as well.

 

For example, so far this month the high temp at MVL is 81F and MPV is 76F.  Last night's lows were 42F at MVL and 40F at MPV.  If you watch the temps for a while, its obvious that MPV ASOS has a decently colder climate than MVL despite climo norms.

 

Looking at 12 months of departures, these are the differences between the MVL and MPV departures:

 

May...MPV (+5.2) was -1.5 colder than MVL (+6.7)

Apr...MPV (-2.7) was -1.5 colder than MVL (-1.2)

Mar...MPV (-6.7) was -1.1 colder than MVL (-5.6)

Feb...MPV (-14.8) was -0.8 colder than MVL (-14.0)

Jan...MPV (-5.2) was -0.4 colder than MVL (-4.8)

Dec...MPV (+3.1) was -0.9 colder than MVL (+4.0)

Nov...MPV (-1.9) was -1.8 colder than MVL (-0.1)

Oct...MPV (+3.1) was -1.5 colder than MVL (+4.6)

Sep...MPV (-1.0) was -1.5 colder than MVL (+0.5)

Aug...MPV (-1.7) was -1.5 colder than MVL (-0.2)

Jul...MPV (-0.4) was -0.1 colder than MVL (-0.3)

Jun...MPV (-0.4) was -1.6 colder than MVL (+1.2)

 

What struck me was how consistent the differences were especially during the warm season months aside from the 3 mid winter months where maybe radiational cooling or low level arctic cold off-set the the elevation differences. 

 

The whole idea of "departures from normal" is to be able to compare different climates, but MPV is so consistently seeing departures in the range of -1.5 colder than its neighboring ASOS.  I was surprised to see how consistently the differences were in the range of MPV seeing departures 1.5F colder than MPV. 

 

Seeing as the climate normals are listed as about equal, that -1.5F to me would be the 450ft elevation difference. That's about what you would expect between 2 stations with almost 500ft elevation difference. 

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dendrite

dendrite

Posted
Posted

A lot of those old siting/instrumentation changes will balance out in the coming decade. METAR too over in July '96 and a lot of ASOSes went in where there were previously human observers. Every new decade when the new normals come out those discrepancies will get watered out. Unfortunately the same can't be said for the MVL rain gauge.

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powderfreak

powderfreak

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A lot of those old siting/instrumentation changes will balance out in the coming decade. METAR too over in July '96 and a lot of ASOSes went in where there were previously human observers. Every new decade when the new normals come out those discrepancies will get watered out. Unfortunately the same can't be said for the MVL rain gauge.

 

Ahh yeah I guess I still have a hard time believing even a siting difference could balance out the climate differences to create a similar climate norms?  But this isn't in my wheelhouse and I know you are much more knowledgeable in the data collection area. 

 

Do you know when the MVL and MPV ASOS systems went in?  Or at least know where I could find the historical information on siting?  I seem to remember a website with photos and other information of the ASOS sites. 

 

Until those changes come though, if any Frigidaire is looking for ammo to prove a colder than normal month or pattern or whatever, go straight to MPV as relative to other departures, its going to run -1 to -2 colder, haha. 

 

And if you are looking to make a case for dry, go to the MVL ASOS precip numbers haha.  Precip wise MVL is at 5.12" for June which is pretty substantial until you look at all the CoCoRAHS stations around it.  Hyde Park just north is at 7.50" and Stowe just south is 8.02".  MVL is collects those heavy downpours fine but just fails at the steady stratiform light to moderate rain, which is resulting in it being a solid 2-3" below the Lamoille County average of 7-9" this month.  

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powderfreak

powderfreak

Posted
Posted

0.91" at BTV. Another good soaking.

 

Looks like Mansfield was near jackpot again, and I'll be curious to see what the Co-Op reports as now our Stratus rain gauge at Mountain Ops has added at least another quarter to a third of an inch with that last burst so we're over 1.50" at this point.

 

I see on NOWData that the record wettest June at Mansfield is 1998 and 15.28".  Yesterday the Co-Op was at 10.85" and given what we have at the base I'd have to assume at least another 1.50" will be added to the Co-Op total....so say up around 12.5" on the month?  Going to be a bit of a stretch but it might be within reach if we can get a couple more rounds of convective rains over the mountain in the next 9 days. 

 

Radar estimates today.  I'm right where the darker color meets light gray on RT 108 and just checked again and I'm up to 0.55 after that last burst.

 

 

Matches with the PWS stations, though I've noticed our Stratus rain gauge seems to capture more rain than the automated PWS.

 

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tamarack

tamarack

Posted
Posted

Had 1.25" yesterday, nearly all before noon, and 0.19" about dawn this morning from a decreasing patch of moderate RA - NNH had 3-4 times that much.  June total now 4.54", and full month avg is 5.51", 2nd only to 5.60" for Oct.  Over the years the two months have been leapfrogging for #1, but we'd need another 2.4" for June to make another hop.

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J.Spin

J.Spin

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Posted

June total now 4.54", and full month avg is 5.51", 2nd only to 5.60" for Oct.  Over the years the two months have been leapfrogging for #1, but we'd need another 2.4" for June to make another hop.

 

I hadn’t really gone through my data to find the top two months for liquid, but those are the exact same two in my data set!  I’ve only logged 5 to 6 seasons at this point, so I figured some of the maxima were eventually going to get smoothed out, but the fact that those are your peaks is just too conspicuous.  In NNE, outside of some of the high mountain areas, we’re in the Dfb Köppen climate classification, so I always thought that being of the “f” variant, the liquid would just end up fairly evenly distributed throughout the year.  Even the Wikipedia page about the continental climate classification highlights the Northeast with respect to its even distribution of precipitation:

 

“Continental climates are climates with significant annual variation in temperature.  They tend to occur in the middles of continents, where prevailing winds come from over land, and temperatures are not moderated by bodies of water such as oceans or seas. They mostly occur in the eastern U.S. and mainland China,[1] and at higher elevations in other parts of the world.  Often winter temperatures are cold enough to support a fixed period of snow each year. Precipitation tends to be moderate, occurring mostly in summer, although there are exceptions such as the upper east coast areas of North America which show an even distribution of precipitation: these are called humid continental climates.”

 

I definitely see a trend in my data for less liquid in the midwinter months relative to the rest of the year, but those specific peaks in June and October are very interesting.  Is that the way it is for all of New England, or at least NNE?

 

My data have another local maximum in December, where total liquid is right up there with the summer months – December is averaging nearly twice the liquid of January and February at this point.  That’s part of why it seems frustrating the way these past couple of Decembers have come in so low on snowfall; there seems to be so much potential for snow in December based on all that liquid, and if season snowfall gets behind at that point, it can be hard to make up ground.

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wxeyeNH

wxeyeNH

Posted
Posted

Wow enhanced risk of severe tomorrow.  MCS has to get out of the way quickly I guess.  Drought cancel.  I feel much better with severe after installing a $10,000 lightning prevention system about 10 years ago.  Several years ago after the system was installed I was watching a storm from my sunroom (near the weathercam)  and a strike hit one of the rods about 20 feet from the window. Sparks went everywhere but the bolt traveled down the copper line into the ground rod. Having a 225 year old house exposed on a hill top with a cedar shake roof can be a bit scary.  Especially in a town with only a volunteer fire department and no close water source except my shallow pond.

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