powderfreak Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Ecellent data, as always. I'm surprised at the modest number of SDDs compared to what I recorded. Given my snowfall total and the extended cold, I considered my snowpack to be rather mediocre, but the 2,418 SDD total is nearly 70% above yours, and 140% of my avg while your total was 97% of yours. We got 2.17" LE from the Jan blizzard, probably about 10X what you had, and that made all the difference. lol I'm not even sure if it snowed up here during the January storm. I just checked CoCoRaHS and it looks like J.Spin had 0.10" total liquid from that event, and we had 0.09" in Stowe, haha. [EDIT: I'm an idiot and was looking at the wrong day. Looks like J.Spin had 0.22" and here was 0.14" for that event. Either way, it was a non-event that January blizzard. Sucks because the EURO was advertising over 1" of QPF even 12 hours prior to start time.] With how cold the second half of winter was, I'm sure our SDD would be significantly different if we got a 2.17" QPF snowstorm in January that then sat on the ground for the rest of winter. Like J.Spin mentioned, we've really struggled the past two winters getting a big snowstorm (like 18"+), whether upslope or synoptic or a combination of the two. Its rare for the Spine to not rattle off at least a couple of those per season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 More on that... Consider this... At my 1,500ft snowstake we had 171" and only had 2 events that exceeded 10" that I can remember. The Thanksgiving nor'easter fluff deform band, and February 4th. Nickle and dime events all winter long. I just counted the days in the snow log, and 51 days last winter had between 1-4" of new snow at 1,500ft. There were only 11 days with snowfall totals of 5" or greater at that elevation. Think about that...51 days would be like over 7 straight weeks of having daily 1-4" snowfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 lol I'm not even sure if it snowed up here during the January storm. I just checked CoCoRaHS and it looks like J.Spin had 0.10" total liquid from that event, and we had 0.09" in Stowe, haha. With how cold the second half of winter was, I'm sure our SDD would be significantly different if we got a 2.17" QPF snowstorm in January that then sat on the ground for the rest of winter. Like J.Spin mentioned, we've really struggled the past two winters getting a big snowstorm (like 18"+), whether upslope or synoptic or a combination of the two. Its rare for the Spine to not rattle off at least a couple of those per season. That LE trails only the 2.18" from the largest snowfall I've measured, 26.5" snow in March 1984 (Ft. Kent), for the greatest LE from any event that didn't have major p-type issues, measurements back thru 1973. Too bad I wasn't home to see it happen. Consider this... At my 1,500ft snowstake we had 171" and only had 2 events that exceeded 10" that I can remember. The Thanksgiving nor'easter fluff deform band, and February 4th. Only had two here, as well - 13" from the pre-Thanksgiving storm and 20" in Jan. And the latter was my first event over 15" since Feb. 2009. It's an odd winter when one can record nearly 2' snowfall (23.5") in the coldest February on record and finish that month with the exact same snow depth with which it began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 That LE trails only the 2.18" from the largest snowfall I've measured, 26.5" snow in March 1984 (Ft. Kent), for the greatest LE from any event that didn't have major p-type issues, measurements back thru 1973. Too bad I wasn't home to see it happen. Consider this... At my 1,500ft snowstake we had 171" and only had 2 events that exceeded 10" that I can remember. The Thanksgiving nor'easter fluff deform band, and February 4th. Only had two here, as well - 13" from the pre-Thanksgiving storm and 20" in Jan. And the latter was my first event over 15" since Feb. 2009. It's an odd winter when one can record nearly 2' snowfall (23.5") in the coldest February on record and finish that month with the exact same snow depth with which it began. Wow didn't know you went so long without a 15"+ storm. That's gotta be rare for your area there to go 5-6 years with copious Gulf of Maine moisture nearby and what has seemed like a lot of eastern tracking nor'easters in recent years. NNE has seen a bit of a lull in widespread big snowstorms lately. SNE has been cleaning up with big coastals lately though, 2011, 2013, 2015 each had multiple large and historic snowstorms, though they did go quite a while from 2005 to 2011 without a real KU. Like if you go read the Boxing Day, late December 2010, storm thread some of posters are talking about it being their first possible KU on the boards since joining EUSWX in like 2006. Now some of those posters get frustrated if those storms don't occur once a winter. Its funny how cyclical it is. Sometimes it seems like those 12-24"+ storms grow on trees, and other times it seems like they are impossible to get. My personal record is witnessing 4 storms of 18"+ in one 365-day period where I lived but it was in two locations. December 25, 2002 had 25" near ALB where I lived at the time, followed up by 21" ten days later on January 4, 2003. Then I moved to BTV later that year to go to college and witnessed BTV get hit by 2 storms of 18"+ in December 2003 (nearly 60" that month in BTV). Like I said, sometimes they grow on trees. Now its been at least 4 winters since I've seen a 18"+ event, but the 17.6" in February 2012 was close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyewall Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 What a gorgeous evening here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lava Rock Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 What a gorgeous evening here! That last field shot would be a great place to fly my model airplanes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Wow didn't know you went so long without a 15"+ storm. That's gotta be rare for your area there to go 5-6 years with copious Gulf of Maine moisture nearby and what has seemed like a lot of eastern tracking nor'easters in recent years. NNE has seen a bit of a lull in widespread big snowstorms lately. SNE has been cleaning up with big coastals lately though, 2011, 2013, 2015 each had multiple large and historic snowstorms, though they did go quite a while from 2005 to 2011 without a real KU. Like if you go read the Boxing Day, late December 2010, storm thread some of posters are talking about it being their first possible KU on the boards since joining EUSWX in like 2006. Now some of those posters get frustrated if those storms don't occur once a winter. Its funny how cyclical it is. Sometimes it seems like those 12-24"+ storms grow on trees, and other times it seems like they are impossible to get. My personal record is witnessing 4 storms of 18"+ in one 365-day period where I lived but it was in two locations. December 25, 2002 had 25" near ALB where I lived at the time, followed up by 21" ten days later on January 4, 2003. Then I moved to BTV later that year to go to college and witnessed BTV get hit by 2 storms of 18"+ in December 2003 (nearly 60" that month in BTV). Like I said, sometimes they grow on trees. Now its been at least 4 winters since I've seen a 18"+ event, but the 17.6" in February 2012 was close. Payback for being centered by the monster deformation band in the Feb. 22-23, 2009 event. During those medium-but-not-large-event years, I had my share of storms in the 8-13" range, but the biggies evaded my particular location skillfully. The early March storm in 2011 dumped nearly 20" not far to my north, and Feb. 2013 gave dryslot 25.5" (and AUG 24-26") while I had barely over 10". And though I got a bunch from this year's Jan blizz, the many misses took the shine off an otherwise fine winter. My 4 biggies in less than a year were, oddly, in my NNJ life, 18" on 3/3/1960, 18" on 12/12-13/1960, 20" on 1/19-20/1961, and 24" on 2/3-4/1961. Since the latter two storms were separated by NYC's longest ever stretch of subfreezing maxima (actually, sub-30 as well), the snowpack on Feb 4 set all kinds of local records. I failed to push an extended yardsick into the snow that day, but given that wading thru it was more than naval deep on my 5'8" frame (and my feet probably had 6-8" of packed snow underneath), low-mid 40s is my estimate at home. Three nearby coop locations to the N and W recorded depths 47-52", which is tops by 10-15" for those spots, or anywhere else I've seen in NJ records. Pow-on-pow snowfall is almost unknown for NJ, and the Feb storm is by far the largest such event I can glean from records there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lava Rock Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Payback for being centered by the monster deformation band in the Feb. 22-23, 2009 event. During those medium-but-not-large-event years, I had my share of storms in the 8-13" range, but the biggies evaded my particular location skillfully. The early March storm in 2011 dumped nearly 20" not far to my north, and Feb. 2013 gave dryslot 25.5" (and AUG 24-26") while I had barely over 10". And though I got a bunch from this year's Jan blizz, the many misses took the shine off an otherwise fine winter. My 4 biggies in less than a year were, oddly, in my NNJ life, 18" on 3/3/1960, 18" on 12/12-13/1960, 20" on 1/19-20/1961, and 24" on 2/3-4/1961. Since the latter two storms were separated by NYC's longest ever stretch of subfreezing maxima (actually, sub-30 as well), the snowpack on Feb 4 set all kinds of local records. I failed to push an extended yardsick into the snow that day, but given that wading thru it was more than naval deep on my 5'8" frame (and my feet probably had 6-8" of packed snow underneath), low-mid 40s is my estimate at home. Three nearby coop locations to the N and W recorded depths 47-52", which is tops by 10-15" for those spots, or anywhere else I've seen in NJ records. Pow-on-pow snowfall is almost unknown for NJ, and the Feb storm is by far the largest such event I can glean from records there. Without looking it up, I can count on one hand how many storms have yielded >15" in my area over the last 5 yrs. Maybe even 10. Seems like the mean storm is ~4-6". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Without looking it up, I can count on one hand how many storms have yielded >15" in my area over the last 5 yrs. Maybe even 10. Seems like the mean storm is ~4-6". Takes me two hands, but that's over 17 winters, and to reach 10 I have to include April 1, 2011, which is right at the threshold. Not as good as Ft. Kent (no surprise there) where I had 7 such storms in 9.7 winters, but better than Gardiner, Maine where 13 winters produced just 4, and none reaching 18", or BGR where three winters yielded a top storm of 12.0" (in April 1975) and just one more larger than 9". The period March 1956 thru Feb 1961, with 7 such events, had a lot to do with my current fascination with snowstorms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Nice shots in this thread eyewall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Takes me two hands, but that's over 17 winters, and to reach 10 I have to include April 1, 2011, which is right at the threshold. Not as good as Ft. Kent (no surprise there) where I had 7 such storms in 9.7 winters, but better than Gardiner, Maine where 13 winters produced just 4, and none reaching 18", or BGR where three winters yielded a top storm of 12.0" (in April 1975) and just one more larger than 9". The period March 1956 thru Feb 1961, with 7 such events, had a lot to do with my current fascination with snowstorms. Wow, you lived somewhere in Maine for 13 years and did not have a snowstorm reach 18"? I'm going to have to look up where Gardiner is. I would think every spot in the state of Maine would see an 18" event at least once a decade. Edit... looks like its between Lewiston and Augusta? That's crazy that zone didn't see at least one 18" event in 13 years, especially in what appears to be a generally favorable deformation band location there inland from the coast of Maine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekuasepinniW Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Wow, you lived somewhere in Maine for 13 years and did not have a snowstorm reach 18"? I'm going to have to look up where Gardiner is. I would think every spot in the state of Maine would see an 18" event at least once a decade. Edit... looks like its between Lewiston and Augusta? That's crazy that zone didn't see at least one 18" event in 13 years, especially in what appears to be a generally favorable deformation band location there inland from the coast of Maine. Haven't had an 18" storm here since 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Haven't had an 18" storm here since 2001. Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekuasepinniW Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Seriously? Yes. I blame the belknap mountains for blocking my moisture on stuff pushing in from the SE. There was a 16" a few years ago, and a bunch of 13's. I'm not good with remembering snowfall dates. My biggest ever remains "only" 21 inches on 2/5/01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yes. I blame the belknap mountains for blocking my moisture on stuff pushing in from the SE. There was a 16" a few years ago, and a bunch of 13's. I'm not good with remembering snowfall dates. My biggest ever remains "only" 21 inches on 2/5/01 Be interesting to see how Dendrite has done since 2001. I'm just shocked in the Lakes Region you haven't grabbed a big deform band or something since then. And I always was under the assumption the Lakes Region in general gets crushed on SE inflow coming off the Atlantic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekuasepinniW Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Be interesting to see how Dendrite has done since 2001. I'm just shocked in the Lakes Region you haven't grabbed a big deform band or something since then. And I always was under the assumption the Lakes Region in general gets crushed on SE inflow coming off the Atlantic? The deform band has never ever set up and camped out over me. It always seems to stop pushing inland 10 miles to my SE, or keeps going until it's 20 miles to my north. The 2/5/01 deform band had slowed down by the time it got to me, but didn't stop until it reached up into waterville valley where they got 36"+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The deform band has never ever set up and camped out over me. It always seems to stop pushing inland 10 miles to my SE, or keeps going until it's 20 miles to my north. The 2/5/01 deform band had slowed down by the time it got to me, but didn't stop until it reached up into waterville valley where they got 36"+ Sounds like just some bad luck more than anything. I don't know enough about the area to know if there is shadowing or something, but seems like a "luck" thing, especially considering those deform bands over-rule any local topography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Be interesting to see how Dendrite has done since 2001. I'm just shocked in the Lakes Region you haven't grabbed a big deform band or something since then. And I always was under the assumption the Lakes Region in general gets crushed on SE inflow coming off the Atlantic? Had 21" in Jan '11...19" in Oct '11...18" in Feb '13. Lots over 12". I wasn't here before 2006, but I assume we did well here in Feb '01 and Mar '01. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Had 21" in Jan '11...19" in Oct '11...18" in Feb '13. Lots over 12". I wasn't here before 2006, but I assume we did well here in Feb '01 and Mar '01. Yeah you seem to do well in the big storms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 0.44" last night for a decent little drink for the plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyewall Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Nice shots in this thread eyewall! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Yeah you seem to do well in the big storms. Aside from Halloweenie I think it's mostly luck. Scott's area was majorly screwed in Oct because of being downwind from Lake Winni. I think he only had a few inches of muck while at 33-35F while I had 19" of high ratio snow at 31F. Nemo and Jan '11 were pretty good in SNE too which usually doesn't bode well the further north you go from here. I tend to like my storm tracks right through Buzzard's Bay, but of course every system is a little different depending on the size of the mid level circulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 May 2015 Averages Max: 73.8°F (+6.9°F) Min: 46.4°F (+3.2°F) Mean: 60.1°F (+5.0°F) Extremes HiMax: 87.4°F (27th) LoMin: 34.4°F (23rd) LoMax: 56.7°F (13th) HiMin: 64.3°F (27th) Precipitation Total: 1.27" MaxDaily: 0.99" (31st) Snowfall Total: 0.0" MaxDaily: 0.0" (---) Snow Depth SnowDD: 0 AvgDepth: 0" MaxDepth: 0" (---) MinDepth: 0" (---) Wind PeakGust: 40mph (12th) MaxDaily: 4.5mph (13th) Max Temps 90s 0 80s 8 70s 12 60s 7 50s 4 40s 0 30s 0 20s 0 10s 0 0s 0 -0s 0 Min Temps 70s 0 60s 2 50s 8 40s 13 30s 8 20s 0 10s 0 0s 0 -0s 0 -10s 0 -20s 0 Precipitation >= 0.01" 9 >= 0.10" 1 >= 0.25" 1 >= 0.50" 1 >= 1.00" 0 Snowfall >= 0.1" 0 >= 1.0" 0 >= 3.0" 0 >= 6.0" 0 >= 12.0" 0 Bright Sunshine (>= 600w/m^2) AvgMonthly: 4.3hrs MaxDaily: 7.6hrs (23rd) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Wow, you lived somewhere in Maine for 13 years and did not have a snowstorm reach 18"? I'm going to have to look up where Gardiner is. I would think every spot in the state of Maine would see an 18" event at least once a decade. Edit... looks like its between Lewiston and Augusta? That's crazy that zone didn't see at least one 18" event in 13 years, especially in what appears to be a generally favorable deformation band location there inland from the coast of Maine. Gardiner is 3 towns south of Augusta, and I lived near the south line, so about 9 miles from the AP, 20 miles east of LEW. Though the downtown is on tidewater, our place was at 270'. Somehow, I measured a total from the 3/93 superstorm that was lower than anyplace I could find in New England, except for Block Island, which tied. It was dismaying to get 10.3" of snow from the same 1.70" LE that was producing 15-20+ inches elsewhere, when my temps were near 20. However, my Gardiner tenure, 10/85 thru 5/98, wasn't all that good for anywhere in central Maine. For comparison, Farmington recorded 9 storms of 18"+ from Feb. 2001 thru Feb. 2009, but only one (18.0" from the superstorm) during my Gardiner years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbutts Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I should probably keep better totals, but just from memory Feb 2013 and Oct 2011 exceeded 18" here. Of course the biggest single storm totals most recently have been to South of here in MA last year and CT a few years back. In general it's a trade off between consistency farther north and higher volatility to the south. Boston has a longer list of > 2' snowfalls at 6 vs. 2 at CON Concord has a higher average annual snowfall with low 60's vs. low 40's at BOS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I'm embarrassed to post these given the work Eyewall does in this thread, but I was able to take a little coop trip a couple days ago to some of our more remote CWA. Good experience for me to see these areas, so there is visually something to compare when I'm forecasting. Moose River downstream of Brassua Dam Kennebec River downstream of Harris Dam East Outlet, Moosehead Lake Attean View off 201 south of Jackman Wyman Dam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Next time we bring the big camera, none of this cell phone garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Spin Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Like J.Spin mentioned, we've really struggled the past two winters getting a big snowstorm (like 18"+), whether upslope or synoptic or a combination of the two. Its rare for the Spine to not rattle off at least a couple of those per season. Yeah, these past two seasons were the first two since I've lived here in which we didn't get at least one 18"+ storm, and that's notable since my data indicate that we average between one and two 18"+ storms per season. The previous seasons in my data set had entrenched that average pretty well though, enough that it's still in that range even after these past couple of slow ones. The '10-'11 season had three 18"+ storms, so that definitely helps with the average. Presumably we'll get back there at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I'm embarrassed to post these given the work Eyewall does in this thread, but I was able to take a little coop trip a couple days ago to some of our more remote CWA. Good experience for me to see these areas, so there is visually something to compare when I'm forecasting. Moose River downstream of Brassua Dam 11401033_10102396024040415_4717702697457716887_n.jpg Kennebec River downstream of Harris Dam 11391391_10102396023855785_8512772292956156559_n.jpg East Outlet, Moosehead Lake 11391487_10102396024070355_1077522404006264292_n.jpg Attean View off 201 south of Jackman 11401371_10102396023975545_514868557039304049_n.jpg Wyman Dam 11403430_10102396023880735_8737413076145825315_n.jpg Nice shots...those are some pretty serious waterways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Yeah, these past two seasons were the first two since I've lived here in which we didn't get at least one 18"+ storm, and that's notable since my data indicate that we average between one and two 18"+ storms per season. The previous seasons in my data set had entrenched that average pretty well though, enough that it's still in that range even after these past couple of slow ones. The '10-'11 season had three 18"+ storms, so that definitely helps with the average. Presumably we'll get back there at some point. It would be curious to see the frequency of events 18"+ that occur within 24-48 hours, as don't some of your events spawn multiple days, even like 3-4 days in some cases? It makes sense to us in that its all one system or one upper level system that lingers for a few days, but I wonder if there'd be a way to break out some of the longer-duration systems for comparison purposes. Anyway, these events are so much more exciting than summer weather, haha. I want a High Wind Warning and a Winter Storm Warning for significant upslope snow. EASTERN CHITTENDEN VT-EASTERN FRANKLIN VT-LAMOILLE VT-ORLEANS VT-INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...NEWPORT VT...RICHFORD VT...STOWE VT...UNDERHILL VT427 AM EST THU NOV 13 2003...HIGH WIND WARNING TONIGHT......WINTER STORM WARNING TONIGHT....TONIGHT...SNOW SHOWERS...HEAVY AT TIMES. ACCUMULATION 6 TO 10INCHES...ESPECIALLY ALONG THE WESTERN SLOPES. VERY WINDY. LOW 20 TO25. NORTHWEST WIND 25 TO 35 MPH WITH GUSTS TO 60 MPH POSSIBLE.CHANCE OF SNOW 90 PERCENT. This particular event dropped some significant snows pretty far downwind of the Spine, with double digits are far as Brookfield in Orange County. This was before Nittany's Froude Number study, where the forecasts were all for the western slopes and the big snows ended up Spine and downwind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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