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Winter 2015-2016 speculation and discussion


AlaskaETC

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CPC's new 3-month outlook is out, and for us in November through January, it leans modestly towards us having above average precip with slightly better chances of above average temps.

Precip?  It's all about precip.

 

Give us above normal and most times we are going to be happy........eventually.

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228.1" in Minneapolis.  The oddity is that February's max is actually the 5th highest (Nov, Jan, Mar (all >40"), Dec, then Feb).  IAD got more snow during Snowmaggedon 1 than Minneapolis has ever received in the entire month of Feb.  Shows how much the prevailing storm track matters.

I'm tempted to pull it up for a bunch of cities but I guess it's kind of a useless stat overall. :P 

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That map is showing exactly what I was thinking. I'm going with 34" at BWI.

That map is reflective of the poor resolution/smoothing. It just basically shows a climo gradient. The actual numbers are relative. It cant resolve micro climates (due to elevation etc). Looks like the Canaan Valley area of WV would be getting half the annual average for there lol.

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That map is reflective of the poor resolution/smoothing. It just basically shows a climo gradient. The actual numbers are relative. It cant resolve micro climates (due to elevation etc). Looks like the Canaan Valley area of WV would be getting half the annual average for there lol.

Well, yeah, I know that. I just thought it was funny that I had that number in my head, and then there it is being shown by the best climate model known to man.

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Isn't that pretty much a classic El Nino map?

yes

 

If you really want to be hip and with the times, you should have just said 5-40".

or do like NHC and go with like 22" even though that's probably among the least likely options. 

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yes

 

or do like NHC and go with like 22" even though that's probably among the least likely options. 

Or you could do probability cones for the highest and lowest amounts based on best storm tracks, elevation, climo, wooly worms, etc.

 

It would look like one of those spirograph things I used to do as a kid.

 

Or you could say "it might snow, it might not".  We can't know.

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Assuming that the forecast of a very strong El Nino (sea surface temperature anomaly in the Nino 3.4 region -- i.e., the rectangle bounded by 5 degrees north and south of the equator and 120/170 degrees West Longitude -- of at least + 2 degrees C) holds for this winter, it would be only the third such event since tracking began in 1950. Here are the DCA summary statistics for the previous two (December-February only), with all-time DC rankings shown in parentheses:

 

1982-83:  Avg temp 40.8 degrees F (17th warmest); Precipitation 6.52 inches  (27th driest); Snow 27.6 inches (18th snowiest)

1997-98:  Avg temp 42.4 degrees F (6th warmest); Precipitation 12.40 inches  (15th wettest); Snow 0.1 inch (Tied for least snowy)

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Assuming that the forecast of a very strong El Nino (sea surface temperature anomaly in the Nino 3.4 region -- i.e., the rectangle bounded by 5 degrees north and south of the equator and 120/170 degrees West Longitude -- of at least + 2 degrees C) holds for this winter, it would be only the third such event since tracking began in 1950. Here are the DCA summary statistics for the previous two (December-February only), with all-time DC rankings shown in parentheses:

 

1982-83:  Avg temp 40.8 degrees F (17th warmest); Precipitation 6.52 inches  (27th driest); Snow 27.6 inches (18th snowiest)

1997-98:  Avg temp 42.4 degrees F (6th warmest); Precipitation 12.40 inches  (15th wettest); Snow 0.1 inch (Tied for least snowy)

So looks like Ian is on the money with 5-10 OR 30-40........

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PS: Trix and Winterwxluvr are especially in a sweet spot on that map. I can imagine some marginal coastal storms that bring rain to the cities and nearby burbs, even up to Boston, while the I-81 crowd gets buried.

Martinsburg had 22.5" in 1997-98, 4" below the long-term average. It was just cold enough on 4-5 storms that gave rain to the cities, even with a great storm track.

Only 3" fell there in 1972-73.

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Assuming that the forecast of a very strong El Nino (sea surface temperature anomaly in the Nino 3.4 region -- i.e., the rectangle bounded by 5 degrees north and south of the equator and 120/170 degrees West Longitude -- of at least + 2 degrees C) holds for this winter, it would be only the third such event since tracking began in 1950. Here are the DCA summary statistics for the previous two (December-February only), with all-time DC rankings shown in parentheses:

 

1982-83:  Avg temp 40.8 degrees F (17th warmest); Precipitation 6.52 inches  (27th driest); Snow 27.6 inches (18th snowiest)

1997-98:  Avg temp 42.4 degrees F (6th warmest); Precipitation 12.40 inches  (15th wettest); Snow 0.1 inch (Tied for least snowy)

 

Interestingly the NAO in 82-83 was moderately positive for the winter. 97-98 was strongly negative. I would expect the exact opposite snow results than what we see here. Did the SE score in 97-98? maybe suppression was an issue?

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Interestingly the NAO in 82-83 was moderately positive for the winter. 97-98 was strongly negative. I would expect the exact opposite snow results than what we see here. Did the SE score in 97-98? maybe suppression was an issue?

 

The SE scored in 72-73, which was another snowless strong Nino.... Columbia, SC got 16" which I believe is their biggest storm on record. DCA saw a pitiful 0.1" for the season.

 

But I don't think it happened in 97-98. My understanding is that we were blasted with so much Pacific air in 1998 due to a ruthless GOA vortex, that there was no mechanism to deliver the cold.... not even with good teleconnections. Your area probably managed to just be cold enough during many of the storms, but the cities were royally screwed.

 

This is a good thread to read

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/43294-why-was-1997-98-such-an-awful-winter-in-the-mid-atlantic/

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The SE scored in 72-73, which was another snowless strong Nino.... Columbia, SC got 16" which I believe is their biggest storm on record. DCA saw a pitiful 0.1" for the season.

 

But I don't think it happened in 97-98. My understanding is that we were blasted with so much Pacific air in 1998 due to a ruthless GOA vortex, that there was no mechanism to deliver the cold.... not even with good teleconnections. Your area probably managed to just be cold enough during many of the storms, but the cities were royally screwed.

 

This is a good thread to read

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/43294-why-was-1997-98-such-an-awful-winter-in-the-mid-atlantic/

 

thanks Fozz. good read.

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With such a small sample size of similar strength ninos, 2 really, I suspect some attribute the warmth and relative lack of snow events in those two years to a strong nino when it could easily have been more attributed to other contributing factors. I suspect the location of the forcing and other signals such as the Pna have more to do with our chances of snowfall then simply the strength of the nino.

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With such a small sample size of similar strength ninos, 2 really, I suspect some attribute the warmth and relative lack of snow events in those two years to a strong nino when it could easily have been more attributed to other contributing factors. I suspect the location of the forcing and other signals such as the Pna have more to do with our chances of snowfall then simply the strength of the nino.

 

We shall see. I find it hard to blame anything other than the Nino for the debacle that was 97-98. As far as 72-73, it seems like we had a lot of bad luck. 82-83 was weird in that it wasn't very stormy, but was somewhat mild for the most part. I don't know enough about the general setup of that winter to judge why it was that way.

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