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Feb 25-26 Discussion/pbp


Wow

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Our local media outlets are showing rain from about 5p-10p on their models! That would greatly reduce snow total, no?

Don't believe them man.

 

AS OF 0945 AM...MAIN ADJUSTMENT FOR THIS UPDATE WAS TO ADJUST THE

TIMING OF THE PRECIP MOVING INTO THE AREA THIS AFTERNOON. THE 12Z

NAM IS A LITTLE SLOWER WITH THE ONSET OF PRECIP AS WELL AS THE

CONSHORT GUIDANCE. BLENDING IN THE CONSHORT POPS BRINGS CATEGORICAL

POPS INTO NE GA...FAR WESTERN UPSTATE AND THE SW NC MOUNTAINS ABOUT

19-20Z...GREENVILLE/ASHEVILLE 22-23Z AND CLT AREA 23-00Z. STILL

LOOKS LIKE PRECIP OUTSIDE THE MOUNTAINS WILL BEGIN AS A SHORT PERIOD

OF RAIN BEFORE DYNAMICS QUICKLY COOL THE COLUMN TO AN ALL SNOW

SOUNDING. THE ATLANTA 12Z SOUNDING SHOWS A NEARLY SATURATED WARM

NOSE BELOW 700 MB WHICH SUBSTANTIATES THE IDEA THAT THERE WILL BE A

SHARP GRADIENT BEWTEEN RAIN AND SNOW SETTING UP SOMEWHERE FROM NORTH

GA...EASTWARD THROUGH THE SOUTHERN PERIPHERY OF THE SC UPSTATE.

THEREFORE...SNOW AMOUNTS IN COUNTIES LIKE ELBERT...ABBEVILLE AND

GREENWOOD WILL BE HIGHLY VARIABLE FROM SOUTH TO NORTH. OTHERWISE IT

IS ALSO NOTEWORTHY THAT MODEL FORECAST SOUNDINGS SHOW CLASSIC CROSS

HAIR SIGNATURES AT PLACES LIKE GSP AND CLT WHICH INDICATE VERY

EFFICIENT SNOWFALL RATES WITH THE POTENTIAL FOR SOME CONVECTIVE

COMPONENTS TO LOCALLY ENHANCE SNOWFALL TOTALS. LOOKS LIKE A WINDOW

OF ABOUT 6 HOURS OF MODERATE TO HEAVY SNOW WITH 1-2 INCHES PER

HOUR...ESPECIALLY WHERE BANDING OCCURS. HAVE NOT MADE ANY SIGNICANT

CHANCES TO CURRENT STORM TOTAL SNOW....EXCEPT JUST FOR SOME MINOR

ADJUSTMENTS FOR THE AFTERNOON.

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But snow is MUCH lighter, even wet snow, than ice is. It's just that simple.

 

Ever seen ice wrapped around a power line that was 4 inches in diameter?  A heavy wet snow can bring down lines. It is just much rarer than ice doing so.  I know because I have seen it it do so. Weather is rarely simple.

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So, are you saying rain from 7pm to 10pm? That would kill our totals!!!

 

That is what the HRRR is suggesting... although There is some question as to how quickly the column will cool... if the rates are intense early on, it could quickly cool the profile to isothermal and the transition to heavy wet snow would occur earlier. 

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You guys might also be interested in these new maps not on my website yet (and as far as I know not available anywhere else). Here are frontogenesis plots centered over the southeast for this event from the HRRR for 925/850/700 and Reflectivity as well.

 

http://www.atmos.albany.edu/student/ppapin/lb13_img/hrrr/hrrr_ncep_fgen_all_gsp.php

 

Thanks for posting those phil!  Looks like Wake county takes a beating

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Thanks for all the post about wet snow vs dry snow. I would love one day for someone to do some research about this with some actually numbers and history. This does seem to be a heavy wet snow for a number of locations throughout the south

My pleasure man. I'm no expert but I've seen lots of both in my life and lots of ice storms as well. I love talking about the weather but then don't we all.

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Ever seen ice wrapped around a power line that was 4 inches in diameter?  A heavy wet snow can bring down lines. It is just much rarer than ice doing so.  I know because I have seen it it do so. Weather is rarely simple.

So have I. I never said I didn't. I'm just comparing ice with snow, which is what was asked about. Ice is more dangerous for trees and power lines than snow. It is just that simple. I wish you people would read a little closer and with a little more comprehension. That was my whole point in answering the question. He asked why would they be talking about power outages with snow as opposed to ice. I specifically said that there WILL be power outages with snow also, which is in agreement with what you said, but not to the extent that there would be if it was ice.

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Many significant winter storms bring dry slotting. The damage is already going to be done by the time it happens. I expect a quick shutoff for much of NC in the morning hours Thursday...quickly from the south-west...esp. Asheville then of course eventually north-east from there. Moderate to heavy accumulations will have already fallen.

 

It may surprise some to see how short duration this event will be and still come out in a winter wonderland by sunrise. 

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Dynamics man. Not out of the ordinary for an upper low to produce rapid enough rates to overwhelm the column. It's interesting this particular 500mb low is causing this though, considering it is opening up over the tn valley. Usually these kinda totals only happen under closed lows.

 

Thanks.  It looks like the 18z RAP is going to continue the idea.  If for some reason the RAP maps from the model center are correct with their simulated radar/ptype/accumulation maps down to I-20/Slight South into KCAE, I will gladly give up next season of Winter weather for the amounts it could possibly be when nothing else has given us much hope.

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Shawn the RAP is taking that area that goes below 0c at 850 for me, and def. you as it starts to wind up the 850mb low.

 

Sleet is coming into the Midlands currently.  Uhm?  I don't know how well we can trust this model... it's solution seems quite ridiculous right now.

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