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Winter Med Range Discussion days 3-10 pbp II


buckeyefan1

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 Well, how about waking up to a modeled classic, widespread SE Miller A major SN for many 2/18-19 on the 6Z GFS fwiw. I realize this is mainly for entertainment and will be different next run, but it shows the great potential there is in this pattern and with us being in a weak Nino.

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 Well, how about waking up to a modeled classic, widespread SE Miller A major SN for many 2/18-19 on the 6Z GFS fwiw. I realize this is mainly for entertainment and will be different next run, but it shows the great potential there is in this pattern and with us being in a weak Nino.

Just saw that. Would be a significant to major hit for many on this board. But here is another 7/8 fantasy solution. If the models react as they have with every other fantasy event, this will be gone before day 5 (out). **The models really have been bad this year. We all realize that an individual day 7 solution can easily not work out; but when you start taking many day 7 snow/ice solutions not working out statistically it gets harder for one not to work out. This just points out that the models have a problem of not handling the pattern blocking.

 

Just for entertainment (again):

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/Image.php?fhr=192ℑ=data%2Fgfs%2F06%2Fgfs_namer_192_1000_500_thick.gif&model=gfs&area=namer&param=1000_500_thick&group=Model+Guidance&preselected_formatted_cycle_date=20150211+06+UTC&imageSize=M&ps=model

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I had posted before that without blocking our best hope would be a follow up wave behind a cutter. The gfs shows this. Also the ukie has a solution close to the cmc.

 

Folks,

 As I've mentioned, we don't need a sustained -NAO or a sustained -AO for a decent shot at getting a major SE winter storm: focus on the storms in red. Therefore, I think -NAO and -AO are a bit overrated in how vital they are for there to be a major SE winter storm. Let the facts speak for themselves.

 

12/29/14 AO/NAO of major ATL winter storms since 1950

 Major ATL SN and/or IP: NAO/AO: blue means both neg.; red means both positive

 2/12-3/2014 NN +0.8/+0.6

 1/9-10/2011 MLN -0.3/-3.4

 2/12/2010  SEN -1.1/-4.8

 3/1/2009  WLN +1.0/+2.3

1/2-3/2002 NN -0.5/0

3/13/1993 NP +0.1/+1.7

1/18/1992 SEN -0.7/-0.1

1/7/1988 SEN +0.5/+0.1

1/22/1987 MEN -1.0/-1.7

3/24/1983 SEN +0.1/-1.6

1/12-14/1982 NN 0/+0.8

2/17-18/1979 NN -0.1/-0.2

1/9/1962 NN +0.6/+1.8

3/11/1960 NN -0.4/-3.1

 2/15/1958 SEN -0.2/-1.9

 2/26/1952 WEN +0.1/-1.7

 

ZR: 3/2/1960 NN +0.1/-0.4

3/9/60 NN -0.2/-2.8

1/18-9/1962 NN +0.2/+2.8

12/24-5/1962 NN -1.9/-0.5

1/9-10/1968 NN -0.7/-1.8

3/25/1971 MLN +0.3/+0.4

1/7-8/1973 SEN -1.1/+0.1

2/6-7/1979 NN -1.1/-1.6

1/22-23/2000 SLN -0.7/-0.4

1/28-30/2000 SLN +0.4/+3.5

1/28-9/2005 WEN 0/-2.1

12/14-5/2005 WLN -0.5/-2.1

2/12/2014 NN +0.8/+0.6

 

Consider these stats for ATL: For major SN/IP since 1950, whereas there were five that had +NAO/+AO, only a little higher number, seven, had a -NAO/-AO.

For major ZR since 1950: whereas there were five that had +NAO/+AO, only little higher number, six, had a -NAO/-AO.

 

NAO: median/mean  -0.1/-0.1 with range +1.0 to -1.1 for major SN/IP and median/mean -0.2/-0.3 with range +0.8 to -1.9 for major ZR

AO: median/mean  -0.2/-0.7 with range +2.3 to -4.8 for major SN/IP and median/mean -0.4/-0.3 with range +3.5 to -2.8 for major ZR

After considering these stats, I'm a bit relieved about +NAO/+AO because they aren't as bad as I had expected.

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Interesting model runs last night. The Euro ensemble mean is in lock step with the operational run, but what's interesting is the way the ens. mean gets there is with low pressure locations shotgunned from central Mississippi to the Great Lakes. 

 

Long ways to go with this one. 

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Matthew East puts out a quality video most every day (and it's posted on his blog).  If you want to get a great feel for all the model data from overnight, check out his video from this morning.  He details the Arctic blast as well as the early week potential wintry system (GFS, GGEM, UKMET, ECMWF).  It's an excellent synopsis of what happened while you slept.

 

He won't often promote his video, so I'll do it for him.  :D

 

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Matthew East puts out a quality video most every day (and it's posted on his blog).  If you want to get a great feel for all the model data from overnight, check out his video from this morning.  He details the Arctic blast as well as the early week potential wintry system (GFS, GGEM, UKMET, ECMWF).  It's an excellent synopsis of what happened while you slept.

 

He won't often promote his video, so I'll do it for him.  :D

 

 

Thanks! I appreciate the kind words!

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Thanks! I appreciate the kind words!

great video.  sounds like there are still a lot of variables but the main idea is a low that traverses west of the apps so the only hope for wintry would be what is left of the CAD.  Not a great scenario for you guys or us up in the MA....

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It'll be easy to dismiss the 6z run....but it does actually have a lot of support. 00z GFS I thought would end up like the 6z but it never did phase. Euro also was pretty durn close at 5h to that solution as well. As Matt said, long ways to go. No reason to throw the towel in right now and I still think this is the best look we've had all winter. 

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What a roller coaster ride last night. Canadian has a huge storm, Euro says no, and then the GFS comes back with a winter storm again. Looks like everything was pushed back to the 18th and 19th, too. The next 7 days are going to be crazy.

 

Just as a heads up, it wasn't pushed back on the 6z gfs.  It is a totally different system.  The 6z had a cutter for the Tuesday storm then another storm on Thursday.

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Just as a heads up, it wasn't pushed back on the 6z gfs.  It is a totally different system.  The 6z had a cutter for the Tuesday storm then another storm on Thursday.

 

Yeah, I just meant as far as getting any winter weather. Looks like GFS has a rain system coming in first, then snow afterwards. While the Canadian just strings everything out with a huge mess.

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The 6z gfs was a perfect scenario for a lot of us in the SE.  The ridge out west looked good and the trough axis went negative at the perfect time.  There are different ways for some of us to get snow out of the setup being shown but we need it to happen exactly like the 6z gfs for a big dog!

 

Edit: I'm talking about the 2/19 storm above.  I still believe the 2/17 storm will cut.

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And 6z reels you back in. That's what makes this winter so incredible. Non-stop fantasy storms that invariably never materialize.

I must have close to 250inches of day 8 modeled snow.

As I said earlier, I think the models have an issue dealing with blocking calculations in the pattern; at least out past 7 days. ** many many years in the future when we finally get a  -NAO dominated winter we may actually see the opposite scenario, where storm shown as cutters at day 7 trend SE at day 5 to give us our winter storms.  

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