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Winter Med Range Discussion days 3-10 pbp II


buckeyefan1

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It won't keep that look, so no worries , it hasn't all winter. Tonight's Euro will probly show an Ohio valley track,lol

The 12z euro is completely wrong on the surface. Low should be off the coast of NC. Dont know why the model is producing such a ridiculous scenario. GEM looks more realistic to me, and its got consistent trends over the past few runs. 

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We will see what the Euro ensembles do, but for now I an very skeptical that we get something of interest out of this pattern. Because, if the storm in a week does bot pan out- looks like warm air will flood the CONUS.

Everyone is skeptical  :lol:  BUT.....this piece of energy tagging along on the backside of the 5th sure could make things interesting if the Euro bias of holding energy back is at play.  I'm not holding my breath though  :P 

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The problem is there are such huge swings run to run even inside of 3-4 days and across pretty much all the models, its been awhile since I have seen models this far apart and unable to even agree with themselves run to run much less different models agreeing on a solution. Kinda makes it pointless, although this last run was a little better they all generally had a sorta similar idea for next week, maybe that will mean they are finally starting to settle down.....but I doubt it.

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I think the problem in this pattern is that there is high-latitude blocking over Alaska, which allows a breakthrough of the strong Pacific westerlies into the Pacific NW- that in turn does not allow the ridge along the west coast to build sufficiently to dig/phase a trough where we need it in the SE for a winter storm. That is my interpretation of the latest Euro.

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I think the problem in this pattern is that there is high-latitude blocking over Alaska, which allows a breakthrough of the strong Pacific westerlies into the Pacific NW- that in turn does not allow the ridge along the west coast to build sufficiently to dig/phase a trough where we need it in the SE for a winter storm. That is my interpretation of the latest Euro.

The last 3 runs of the euro have been completely different also. So it should change at 0z again  :snowing:

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The problem is there are such huge swings run to run even inside of 3-4 days and across pretty much all the models, its been awhile since I have seen models this far apart and unable to even agree with themselves run to run much less different models agreeing on a solution. Kinda makes it pointless, although this last run was a little better they all generally had a sorta similar idea for next week, maybe that will mean they are finally starting to settle down.....but I doubt it.

 

Yep. That has been the story of the of the entire season. It's been incredibly frustrating not being able to put any faith whatsoever in any model or solution beyond the short range. It's like the 5 day is the new 10 day.

 

I think the problem in this pattern is that there is high-latitude blocking over Alaska, which allows a breakthrough of the strong Pacific westerlies into the Pacific NW- that in turn does not allow the ridge along the west coast to build sufficiently to dig/phase a trough where we need it in the SE for a winter storm. That is my interpretation of the latest Euro.

The good news is that it certainly trended better with respect to the cold. No it's not there yet, obviously, but the cold is certainly is a lot closer than the 0z run. As downeast said, Considering all the changes in the models this far out all year, it's almost silly to take any model very seriously at all at this range... But I'm happy that there is at least a chance future runs could change for the better.   The moto this year is if you are unhappy with this run, just wait until the next since it will likely be completely different. Will take any small victories we can at this point.

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No doubt there will be a storm in my mind...Has there been a storm that actually WAS suppressed this year?  I don't remember one.  They all come north and wet.  The only question I think is there enough cold before it gets here and does it stay in the gulf.  Most likely the answer is no.  Wash rinse repeat.

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That is last night's run, mp184qcr.  I've got to run in a bit, but I'll look at them if I can get a chance before I leave.

 

Of course, it's not as if the EPS mean hasn't been swinging wildly from run-to-run, so I'm not sure if it even matters what it shows at this point.

Whoops. sorry! i checked the past few EPS runs and they have been somewhat more consistent, gives me some hope.

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RAH Long range says

 GFS REMAINS CLOSE TO THE COAST WITH PRECIP MOVING IN LATER ON WEDNESDAY... 12Z ECMWF TAKES THE LOW OUT TO SEA WITH LITTLE LOCAL IMPACT... AND GFS ENSEMBLE HAS CONSIDERABLE VARIATION IN STRENGTH AND PROXIMITY TO THE COAST... SO CONFIDENCE AT THIS TIME REMAINS LOW. TIMING WILL HAVE A GREAT IMPACT ON PTYPE... WITH ANY OVERNIGHT PRECIP POTENTIALLY BRINGING PTYPE ISSUES. AT THIS POINT... WILL CONTINUE WITH CHANCE OF RAIN UNTIL TIMING/DEVELOPMENT CAN BE BETTER ASCERTAINED. TEMPERATURES WILL CONTINUE TO BE BELOW NORMAL THROUGH THE END OF THE WEEK.
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Much rather have a suppressed system squashed to oblivion at this point....not that it really matters. There will be a storm, and Kentucky up through the NE will jackpot.

 

Agreed, but it can get NW in a hurry.  Look at this Sun/Mon deal, it seems like every 6 hour run the NS energy tries to phase with the baja low a little stronger and thus the low is stronger.  This has been happening gradually for a couple of days now. 

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Blacksburg articulates the situation well... And appears to be consistent with what you good people are saying.

WEDNESDAY...OUR ATTENTION TURNS TO THE NEXT POTENTIAL WINTER

WEATHER SYSTEM. AS WITH THE PAST SEVERAL...THERE DO NOT APPEAR TO

BE ANY CLEAR ANSWERS FOR THIS EVENT EITHER. DISTINCT NORTHERN

STREAM AND SOUTHERN STREAM SYSTEMS ARE EVIDENT WED...WITH AN

ARCTIC COLD FRONT FROM NEAR CHI-MCI...REASONABLY CONSISTENT AMONG

BOTH MODELS. WHAT IS NOT CONSISTENT...HOWEVER...IS A POTENT

SOUTHERN STREAM SYSTEM. THE GFS HAS THIS SYSTEM RACING INTO THE

SOUTHEAST STATES...WHILE THE ECMWF STILL HAS THIS BACK ALONG THE

TX COAST. THE ECMWF TRACKS THIS FEATURE WELL SOUTH KEEPING IT ACROSS

GA/SC...THEN INTO THE WESTERN ATLANTIC AS IT PLUNGES AN ARCTIC

HIGH SOUTHEAST INTO THE OH/TN VALLEY...CLEARLY FOCUSING ON THE

NORTHERN STREAM. MEANWHILE...THE GFS TRACKS THIS NORTHEAST TOWARD

THE SC/NC COAST AND GENERATES A COASTAL LOW NEAR THE OUTER BANKS

OF NC. THE GFS HAS AN EQUIVALENT ARCTIC HIGH...BUT HOLDS IT BACK

NORTH IN THE UPPER MIDWEST UNTIL A SECONDARY SHORT WAVE LIFTS OUT

OF THE CENTRAL PLAINS. HENCE...THERE ARE CONSIDERABLE DIFFERENCES

BETWEEN THE PRECIPITATION AMOUNTS ADVERTISED WITH THESE TWO

PATTERNS. THE GFS WOULD SUGGEST WIDESPREAD RAIN/SNOW TRACKING

ACROSS MUCH OF THE CWA WED NIGHT/THU...WITH UPSLOPE SNOW SHOWERS

INTO THU/FRI. MEANWHILE...THE ECMWF SOLUTION WOULD INDICATE LITTLE

MORE THAN SOME LIGHT SNOW ALONG THE ARCTIC FRONT...FOLLOWED BY

TYPICAL UPSLOPE MOUNTAIN SNOW SHOWERS INTO THU. HAVE TAKEN A

MIDDLE OF THE ROAD APPROACH FOR NOW...WHICH GENERALLY AGREES WITH

THE SUPERBLEND OUTPUT...AS OPPOSED TO ANY ONE MODEL. IF THE GFS

SOLUTION IS RIGHT...THERE IS MORE SIGNIFICANT POTENTIAL FOR WINTER

PRECIPITATION ACROSS THE CWA...AND AGAIN ISSUES WITH P-TYPE.

FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE EXTENDED...THE NEXT SYSTEM OF INTEREST

DOES NOT ARRIVE UNTIL LATE IN THE WEEKEND OR EARLY NEXT WEEK...SO

AT THIS POINT THE WEEKEND LOOKS DRY WITH NEAR TO BELOW NORMAL

TEMPERATURES.

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18z GFS almost a bomb day 6

 

Just a little too fast...Need it to be a little slower to get the cold air in.  Slowing it down has definitely been the trend today.

 

Edit:  Oh so close but the track being a little further east helped w/ temps.  Still some snow for NC this run.

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