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Post-Super Bowl Storm chance discussion


rossi

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We have pretty decent blocking this time at least...

there's a bit of ridging going into greenland but it's east based. I wouldn't really call it decent blocking. Let's hope the current clipper bombing out is able to suppress heights enough for a good event here 

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these events can shift north at the last minute without blocking

First of all the NAM past 60 should always be ignored - with that anchoring banana high to the north - who do you think is going to win that battle ? The storm isn't strong enough to push it out of the way so you are goin to have alot of overrunning north of south jersey as temps fail to reach freezing monday so any mixing will be various forms of ice and only for a brief period as the storm can only get so far north and will have to slip south of the HP because it is blocked so it will change back to snow after a brief mix - of course this is all just speculation at this point many more model runs still too go.......

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1 we have confluence through the lakes. 2 we have blocking compliments of today's clipper just look at 500 by hour 60

I believe this south . I would not expect this to " jump north " . I think NAM is too far N and is over amped considering what is going on in the N Atlantic.

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First of all the NAM past 60 should always be ignored - with that anchoring banana high to the north - who do you think is going to win that battle ? The storm isn't strong enough to push it out of the way so you are goin to have alot of overrunning north of south jersey as temps fail to reach freezing monday so any mixing will be various forms of ice and only for a brief period as the storm can only get so far north and will have to slip south of the HP because it is blocked so it will change back to snow after a brief mix - of course this is all just speculation at this point many more model runs still too go.......

I would agree with everything accept that the nam should be ignored.. NO model should be ignored, analysed and taken with a grain of salt perhaps but never ignored

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1 we have confluence through the lakes. 2 we have blocking compliments of today's clipper just look at 500 by hour 60

I believe this south . I would not expect this to " jump north " . I think NAM is too far N and is over amped considering what is going on in the N Atlantic.

What did you think of the 0z euro? If the 12z shifts 25 miles north it will look like the NAM for NYC. Not trying to be a debbie downer just looking out for what could go wrong in this setup. 

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It should be noted that the period of blocking that is forecast to be developing could shape a 500 mb pattern more conducive to a track somewhat farther to the south. Between hours 60 and 66, one sees the NAM try to "cut" the storm--turning it more to the north--before it heads almost due eastward after. This motion suggests that the NAM responds to growing blocking that is forecast. The issue concerns timing. If the forecast blocking is more robust than the NAM currently anticipates or it develops faster, the kind of northward motion that was seen between hours 60 and 66 might not occur at all. If not, then the storm could exit along the Delmarva or southern NJ.

 

In short, there's still quite a bit of uncertainty present.

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What did you think of the 0z euro? If the 12z shifts 25 miles north it will look like the NAM for NYC. Not trying to be a debbie downer just looking out for what could go wrong in this setup.

Both euro and GFS have trended north the last 4 runs...as well as the nam.. So ignoring the nam makes no sense right now lol

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1 we have confluence through the lakes. 2 we have blocking compliments of today's clipper just look at 500 by hour 60

I believe this south . I would not expect this to " jump north " . I think NAM is too far N and is over amped considering what is going on in the N Atlantic.

rest of the 12z suite will tell the story--models have been going north since yesterday-granted it's the NAM but it continues the trend-need to see it stop or most of the subforum is looking at mixed slop or rain further south. 

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First of all the NAM past 60 should always be ignored - with that anchoring banana high to the north - who do you think is going to win that battle ? The storm isn't strong enough to push it out of the way so you are goin to have alot of overrunning north of south jersey as temps fail to reach freezing monday so any mixing will be various forms of ice and only for a brief period as the storm can only get so far north and will have to slip south of the HP because it is blocked so it will change back to snow after a brief mix - of course this is all just speculation at this point many more model runs still too go.......

 

 

very much agreed... this run should be a little bit further South with the H to North.

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The worst case sceario is that the surface low tracks too far northeast before redevelopment occurs, and even then it would be a heavy front end dump for everyone. We either want the surface low to track further West so that the redevelopment occurs further SW and we can get a stronger coastal in here or you want a Euro scenario where the main surface low tracks over the mid-atlantic. I don't see a situation where the surface low would make it into Upstate NY and flip everyone to rain, and even if that occured, the CAD signiature is strong and it would likely be ice rather than plain rain.

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It should be noted that the period of blocking that is forecast to be developing could shape a 500 mb pattern more conducive to a track somewhat farther to the south. Between hours 60 and 66, one sees the NAM try to "cut" the storm--turning it more to the north--before it heads almost due eastward after. This motion suggests that the NAM responds to growing blocking that is forecast. The issue concerns timing. If the forecast blocking is more robust than the NAM currently anticipates or it develops faster, the kind of northward motion that was seen between hours 60 and 66 might not occur at all. If not, then the storm could exit along the Delmarva or southern NJ.

 

In short, there's still quite a bit of uncertainty present.

Any type of surface low to our southwest should hit the block and redevelop.

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rest of the 12z suite will tell the story--models have been going north since yesterday-granted it's the NAM but it continues the trend-need to see it stop or most of the subforum is looking at mixed slop or rain further south.

This hanging on every model run is just pure ignorance. A model can show any solution if you look at the pattern and say ok why is that right or wrong.

Of course the NAM changes over. But it's /)$& wrong. Your pattern dictates the center is too far N. stop worrying about the " model suite " and use your head.

If there is confluence and blocking where SHOULD the center go to PITT ? Or DC ?

It's wrong. It doesn't fit the pattern. It's a joke to analyze it.

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1/7/94 is pretty high up on the analog list. Ice around here. Big snow storm from the LHV and points North and East.

On the very off chance the primary makes it into up state ny, then most areas will need to be very worried about an ice storm, at least for a part of the storm. There is a plethora of snow pack for the eastern half of this forum, the ground is frozen, and that HP means business. However, as has been stated, this run does not make sense nor does it fit the synoptic pattern.
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This hanging on every model run is just pure ignorance. A model can show any solution if you look at the pattern and say ok why is that right or wrong.

Of course the NAM changes over. But it's /)$& wrong. Your pattern dictates the center is too far N. stop worrying about the " model suite " and use your head.

If there is confluence and blocking where SHOULD the center go to PITT ? Or DC ?

It's wrong. It doesn't fit the pattern. It's a joke to analyze it.

Wouldn't say I'm hanging on every model run...multiple models/runs have shown a definitive trend north. Is it right/wrong?  Who knows....but  I think that's worth analyzing IMO

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This hanging on every model run is just pure ignorance. A model can show any solution if you look at the pattern and say ok why is that right or wrong.

Of course the NAM changes over. But it's /)$& wrong. Your pattern dictates the center is too far N. stop worrying about the " model suite " and use your head.

If there is confluence and blocking where SHOULD the center go to PITT ? Or DC ?

It's wrong. It doesn't fit the pattern. It's a joke to analyze it.

 

lol. Yep. How strong are peoples' short term memories. My guess, is not very good. 

 

I'd still ride the GFS and Euro ensemble mean, until tomorrow.

 

The trend this year has also been to strongly favor locations south and east...

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This hanging on every model run is just pure ignorance. A model can show any solution if you look at the pattern and say ok why is that right or wrong.

Of course the NAM changes over. But it's /)$& wrong. Your pattern dictates the center is too far N. stop worrying about the " model suite " and use your head.

If there is confluence and blocking where SHOULD the center go to PITT ? Or DC ?

It's wrong. It doesn't fit the pattern. It's a joke to analyze it.

 

Agree that no one should be jumping of a single model run, but there is no denying the overall trend since 12z yesterday on virtually all the models to bring this much further north.  It looks to me that the exiting clipper is causing the PV over Quebec to temporarily elongate in an east-west manner which allows heights to increase here, and hence allows the system to track further north.

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