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Forecast/storm discussions and part II Manitoba Mauler


Damage In Tolland
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Great runs on the whole for eastern Mass to be sure. Just have one question perhaps someone with formal training in the science can comment on. There's a fairly persistent subsidence hole over eastern Mass, running roughly Boston to Cape Ann, which has showed up on the RGEM, Canadian, NAM and GFS to some degree. I'm wondering if this is more a result of proximity to the sinking air around those huge bands to the west, or if it may have to do with the wind direction/coastal front? Many thanks in advance.

 

As an addendum, just want to say this place is a treasure trove for amateurs like me. I've learned more lurking here for the past four years than I'd probably ever pick up just reading books and studying charts.

 

That feature is subsidence in between the coastal front and low level forcing to the SE and mid level frontogenesis to the west. 

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QPF queens getting the shaft in a different way than normal tonight. Mid levels were screaming east, east, east... Funny how it's responded in the QPF time as we head closer to the storm. Upton must have been spending too much time rip and reading qpf.

 

Makes it real hard to collaborate a pretty map when you get one office running nude through the streets.

 

This is probably an exercise in futility considering most people around here, but folks really need to beware of some caution flags. I'm not saying this won't be a great storm, but locking in record totals from NYC through BOS is dangerous. If you check BOX's experimental snowfall graphics, their most likely total is only an inch or two lower than the maximum, and 10-15 inches higher in some cases than their minimum. That to me says it all. We (as an organization) got a little carried away and started forecasting totals too close to the maximum possible rather than the most likely.

 

I like thinking about it in terms of the HPC graphics. I can't post graphics right now for whatever reason, but in essence 3 out of 4 forecasts are greater than 18 inches, and 3 out of 4 forecasts are less than 27 inches. There's maybe the range you should be thinking about, rather than 24-36 inches.

post-44-0-68068400-1422248887_thumb.png

 

post-44-0-86867300-1422248902_thumb.png

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Makes it real hard to collaborate a pretty map when you get one office running nude through the streets.

 

This is probably an exercise in futility considering most people around here, but folks really need to beware of some caution flags. I'm not saying this won't be a great storm, but locking in record totals from NYC through BOS is dangerous. If you check BOX's experimental snowfall graphics, their most likely total is only an inch or two lower than the maximum, and 10-15 inches higher in some cases than their minimum. That to me says it all. We (as an organization) got a little carried away and started forecasting totals too close to the maximum possible rather than the most likely.

 

I like thinking about it in terms of the HPC graphics. I can't post graphics right now for whatever reason, but in essence 3 out of 4 forecasts are greater than 18 inches, and 3 out of 4 forecasts are less than 27 inches. There's maybe the range you should be thinking about, rather than 24-36 inches.

 

 

Yeah I like something in the 16-24/18-24 range with jackpots higher in the localized banding.

 

I think this one actually has just a bit less juice to it than Feb 2013 so I would expect the coverage of 24"+ to be less than that storm. But it's still going to be pretty high end. Feb 2013 had a greater gulf connection with the southern stream vortmax

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Makes it real hard to collaborate a pretty map when you get one office running nude through the streets.

 

This is probably an exercise in futility considering most people around here, but folks really need to beware of some caution flags. I'm not saying this won't be a great storm, but locking in record totals from NYC through BOS is dangerous. If you check BOX's experimental snowfall graphics, their most likely total is only an inch or two lower than the maximum, and 10-15 inches higher in some cases than their minimum. That to me says it all. We (as an organization) got a little carried away and started forecasting totals too close to the maximum possible rather than the most likely.

 

I like thinking about it in terms of the HPC graphics. I can't post graphics right now for whatever reason, but in essence 3 out of 4 forecasts are greater than 18 inches, and 3 out of 4 forecasts are less than 27 inches. There's maybe the range you should be thinking about, rather than 24-36 inches.

 

Extremely well said - when/if the Euro does bump east the cumulative changes inside of really 30 or so hours for those to the SW will have been large.  Being as we're still kind of near that window - there's still room for some meaningful changes.

 

 

GEFS out yet?

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Makes it real hard to collaborate a pretty map when you get one office running nude through the streets.

 

This is probably an exercise in futility considering most people around here, but folks really need to beware of some caution flags. I'm not saying this won't be a great storm, but locking in record totals from NYC through BOS is dangerous. If you check BOX's experimental snowfall graphics, their most likely total is only an inch or two lower than the maximum, and 10-15 inches higher in some cases than their minimum. That to me says it all. We (as an organization) got a little carried away and started forecasting totals too close to the maximum possible rather than the most likely.

 

I like thinking about it in terms of the HPC graphics. I can't post graphics right now for whatever reason, but in essence 3 out of 4 forecasts are greater than 18 inches, and 3 out of 4 forecasts are less than 27 inches. There's maybe the range you should be thinking about, rather than 24-36 inches.

I knew something was up once the nws map's came out and they didn't match up. 24-36"? Jesus I can't believe they had that still.

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Makes it real hard to collaborate a pretty map when you get one office running nude through the streets.

 

This is probably an exercise in futility considering most people around here, but folks really need to beware of some caution flags. I'm not saying this won't be a great storm, but locking in record totals from NYC through BOS is dangerous. If you check BOX's experimental snowfall graphics, their most likely total is only an inch or two lower than the maximum, and 10-15 inches higher in some cases than their minimum. That to me says it all. We (as an organization) got a little carried away and started forecasting totals too close to the maximum possible rather than the most likely.

 

I like thinking about it in terms of the HPC graphics. I can't post graphics right now for whatever reason, but in essence 3 out of 4 forecasts are greater than 18 inches, and 3 out of 4 forecasts are less than 27 inches. There's maybe the range you should be thinking about, rather than 24-36 inches.

Appreciated

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Yeah I like something in the 16-24/18-24 range with jackpots higher in the localized banding.

 

I think this one actually has just a bit less juice to it than Feb 2013 so I would expect the coverage of 24"+ to be less than that storm. But it's still going to be pretty high end. Feb 2013 had a greater gulf connection with the southern stream vortmax

I have been on the 12 to 24 train with friends, majority won't know the difference between 24 and 18 . effectively the GP with drifting ain't going to know

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Makes it real hard to collaborate a pretty map when you get one office running nude through the streets.

This is probably an exercise in futility considering most people around here, but folks really need to beware of some caution flags. I'm not saying this won't be a great storm, but locking in record totals from NYC through BOS is dangerous. If you check BOX's experimental snowfall graphics, their most likely total is only an inch or two lower than the maximum, and 10-15 inches higher in some cases than their minimum. That to me says it all. We (as an organization) got a little carried away and started forecasting totals too close to the maximum possible rather than the most likely.

I like thinking about it in terms of the HPC graphics. I can't post graphics right now for whatever reason, but in essence 3 out of 4 forecasts are greater than 18 inches, and 3 out of 4 forecasts are less than 27 inches. There's maybe the range you should be thinking about, rather than 24-36 inches.

Good post. you're right.

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I knew something was up once the nws map's came out and they didn't match up. 24-36"? Jesus I can't believe they had that still.

 

Heck I discovered tonight that our snowfall web graphic had an error in the code that made 18-24" and 24-36" the same color. We didn't have Ginxy's chartreuse until we hit 36-48".

 

I managed to find the error in the coding (as simple as a duplicate number 10).

 

But these are the differences people notice between offices.

 

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The cape might be a crazy spot for this one...

This could be the Blizzard of 2005 all over again...aka, boston mets discounting snows on the Cape, only to scramble at the last minute and jack up accumulations, or just refuse to acknoledge the fact that we got 3 feet of snow (I'm looking at you Pete Bouchard, called for 8-16 with a changeover to rain, ended up with 36).

 

Time and time again there's too much model hugging when it comes to rain/snow lines over the Cape with these historic storms (and I'm not just saying that b/c I live there as I'm in the city now). As the LP bombs out heavy banding makes it very hard for temps to actually climb above freezing and change precip (look at 850mb temps and you'll see exactly what im talking about).

Canadian and NAM have Cape as Jackpot with 28-34. This one will be interesting...

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Two points wxsniss as I know you understand I've got no motives behind what I'm saying.

 

I really believe the lean here was convective feedback was the reason the euro was right and the growing consensus of the others wrong.  May still be the case, but for the reasons I outlined above I'd actually think if the experts were so sure feedback was involved in this particular case DUE to the capture and hook, it would discount the western most solutions to some extent.

 

I'm not sure this lobe of vorticity is invalid.  I think we're just seeing a slightly delayed capture because the initial impulse (as Phil and an AFD mentioned earlier) is running a wee bit fast.  So as a result instead of this thing spinning up from 70 or 71, it's more like 69 or 69.5.

 

GFS/RGEM/NAM are all in very solid general agreement. 

 

Wxniss, lastly...it's unlikely this bobble is done. 

 

100% agree... was raising the comparison of 18z RGEM to Saturday afternoon GGEM / EURO to make the point that these eastward tugs by pieces of vorticity swinging way past 70W may have some truth to it

 

(tough night to be obligated away from the internet... waiting until my better half falls asleep lol)

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