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February mid to long range threats discussion


Ji

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Is there any meteorological reason why these storms keep hitting the same areas over and over again with such stunning precision? I keep hearing about seasonal trends or atmospheric memory and noticing them but what's the science behind it?

I don't have any scientific data behind it but there are clearly seasonal trends in many seasons. You see it in winter and with hurricane season in particular. I assume it's mostly because patterns become somewhat dominant either for a long period or return after a break. There might be differences within the pattern/s but you often end up with the rails for the train being more or less similar.

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2nd s/w eventually digs closes off, off the SE coast. Touches off a big Ocean LP 990mb. GFS & EURO showing how these two s/w's so close to each other (or just the right distance apart) are ruining our chances.

 

GFS is def leading the way. Example is the Thursday "non event".. EURO had that s/w blowing up into a big NE storm, GFS consistently showing basically a front with a weak wave. EURO jumped toward that in today's 12z run.

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Is there any meteorological reason why these storms keep hitting the same areas over and over again with such stunning precision? I keep hearing about seasonal trends or atmospheric memory and noticing them but what's the science behind it?

I don't have any scientific data behind it but there are clearly seasonal trends in many seasons. You see it in winter and with hurricane season in particular. I assume it's mostly because patterns become somewhat dominant either for a long period or return after a break. There might be differences within the pattern/s but you often end up with the rails for the train being more or less similar.

 

Great response. I agree, patterns tend to establish themselves and become hard to break down. Last year it was a favorable one, this year we have missed every pattern set up.. they have all been against us. No big help from NAO or AO.. the PNA has been a help to keep us getting cold shots, but we are screwed without breaks in a fast flow.. Otherwise you have to get a perfect set up.. and we know how often that happens! NOT MUCH! So I think we keep looking for the variables that buck the trend. Like a 50/50 low. NAO going negative, something to stop this madness... and it never shows up.. and so the beat goes on, and soon will stop.. winter is running out of time!

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Great response. I agree, patterns tend to establish themselves and become hard to break down. Last year it was a favorable one, this year we have missed every pattern set up.. they have all been against us. No big help from NAO or AO.. the PNA has been a help to keep us getting cold shots, but we are screwed without breaks in a fast flow.. Otherwise you have to get a perfect set up.. and we know how often that happens! NOT MUCH! So I think we keep looking for the variables that buck the trend. Like a 50/50 low. NAO going negative, something to stop this madness... and it never shows up.. and so the beat goes on, and soon will stop.. winter is running out of time!

I think there is something to the idea if vague. I don't think a coastal in September necessarily tells you much about January or something like that but once you've been thru a chunk you often get an idea. It's the same basic thought behind analog forecasting and knowing which areas tend to see more snow in weak ninos etc. It's not necessarily the number one guide though perhaps.. 09/10 flipped hard and fast after the second blizzard despite continued blocking periods beyond.

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Last year got into the groove in Jan and stuck basically the same for 3 months. Over time the bullseye moved around. Everyone from sne-ma-se did pretty well overall. 

 

The current pattern is really only a week or so old. If the general pattern holds for say a month+, I highly doubt it's a constant barrage in the NE. 

 

I could see suppression becoming an issue up north if progs are right with lobes of the pv dropping down. 

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Both GEFS and Candian ensemble means look more like the CMC op than the GFS to me.  It's at times like this that I wish more sites showed the combined North American ensemble mean.  According to model verification scores, it's one of the best tools we have at this range. 

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Should see twitter and facebook light up soon as to how there is no way the low cuts into a 1038 hp. 

 

Yes...people are so focused on the surface and kind of ignoring the fact that the upper level pattern isn't very good.....when you have a sh-itty pattern you need more than a transient surface high to make a storm work

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there's your new pattern psuhoffman....just what we had yesterday :axe:

come spring if we had no decent events then you were right. I'm letting it play out first. Worse years then this had a nice storm after this point. Also I'd rather not be in the bullseye every run at this range. There is still plenty of guidance saying there is potential. We all get your point and that in your opinion it's over but I'm still going to track each event.
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come spring if we had no decent events then you were right. I'm letting it play out first. Worse years then this had a nice storm after this point. Also I'd rather not be in the bullseye every run at this range. There is still plenty of guidance saying there is potential. We all get your point and that in your opinion it's over but I'm still going to track each event.

it wouldn't matter one iota if you were in the bullseye in the beginning,  the pattern says no. One year all we got was ice,pattern said no!! But do what you want!!

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Both GEFS and Candian ensemble means look more like the CMC op than the GFS to me.  It's at times like this that I wish more sites showed the combined North American ensemble mean.  According to model verification scores, it's one of the best tools we have at this range. 

 

yes...GEFS look better than the OP and Can ENS  worse than the OP but still ok....I'm kind of ignoring the Canadian for now...this past weekend It still had a low off Myrtle Beach after the GFS/EURO had already shifted way north

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come spring if we had no decent events then you were right. I'm letting it play out first. Worse years then this had a nice storm after this point. Also I'd rather not be in the bullseye every run at this range. There is still plenty of guidance saying there is potential. We all get your point and that in your opinion it's over but I'm still going to track each event.

to be clear, since I'm no met and can only go on history and what meteo I've learned over the years, I am not saying there is no chance for us to score; nobody can make that edict at this point in the game

I am, however, as skeptical as I've ever been in a winter for something to work (which I would define as an event of 4"+)

but if anybody thinks I don't want it to snow to justify my skepticism so I can run around at the end of winter saying "I was right", that person would be crazy

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