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1/27 Winter Storm - Round 3 - Discussion Thread


Heisy

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Future book or thesis title about today: "All Quiet on the Western Front: A Storm Forecast Gone Bad" ;)

 

We should reboot A Christmas Carol with a Meteorologist as the main character revisiting past busts, watching current flops and spinning cautionary tales about model-hugging.

 

The Ghost of Millers Past: "Bewaaaaaaare the western friiiiiiiiiinge... Bewaaaaaaaare the western friiiiiiiiinge!!"

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I feel like Even Stephen. I was expecting 1"-2" with Friday's storm with a quick change over to rain, but ended up with about 5". I was hoping for 4"-6" with this storm, but will probably end up with 2" when it's all said and done. So...

One over-performer, one under-performer, guess it all evens out.

That's crazy that this is only a 2" storm for you right in Lansdale. I'm guessing it will continue to snow lightly (moderate right now) for another 5 hours, so another 1-2" will be added on top of the over 4 currently on the board. It's definitely a busted forecast, but I am not going to complain about a 4-6" storm (this includes yesterday part 1).
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As a lurker snow weenie here for a couple of years I must say I've learned a lot about the forecasts of Miller B's. For public safety, I feel nice job as always, best to have folks prepared rather then be surprised. Especially since this event was not an 7 or 8 day tracker. I woke up Sunday morning saying what storm?

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TTN is still under a WSW, I don't know if we will meet the criteria or not.

Usually they call it at 5.5.  My parents are now up to around 3.7.  It snows for another few hours, it could happen.  Plus, I'm sure areas north got more, so parts of the county could get there more easily.

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http://www.cnbc.com/id/102371281

You guys should read this.

 

That's cool...kudos to him! Is there any post game analysis going around as to "what went wrong?" Not as in "(most) of the models were wrong", but as in what factors that were not foreseen caused the storm to "miss"? Was it track only? It seems like there may have been other issues.

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As a lurker snow weenie here for a couple of years I must say I've learned a lot about the forecasts of Miller B's. For public safety, I feel nice job as always, best to have folks prepared rather then be surprised. Especially since this event was not an 7 or 8 day tracker. I woke up Sunday morning saying what storm?

 

Absolutely disagree. This diabolical performance will only lead to the public not taking the next storm seriously, even if it actually should be. The Boy Crying Wolf Syndrome. How in the year 2015 we can't accurately call a storm, even as it's going on, is unbelievable. We have come nowhere in 15 years, evidently....Johnny Bo is feeling vindicated this morning, and as he should.

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That's cool...kudos to him! Is there any post game analysis going around as to "what went wrong?" Not as in "(most) of the models were wrong", but as in what factors that were not foreseen caused the storm to "miss"? Was it track only? It seems like there may have been other issues.

Track was more or less it.  I mean, the storm center was progged by the Euro and then the NAM to get "caught" by the upper low and tuck west, ending up much closer to the area than it actually did.  The GFS and GGEM never had such a capture (or had it later), always keeping the track east.

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That's cool...kudos to him! Is there any post game analysis going around as to "what went wrong?" Not as in "(most) of the models were wrong", but as in what factors that were not foreseen caused the storm to "miss"? Was it track only? It seems like there may have been other issues.

 I read where our 50/50 low skipped town, no blocking.

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Track was more or less it.  I mean, the storm center was progged by the Euro and then the NAM to get "caught" by the upper low and tuck west, ending up much closer to the area than it actually did.  The GFS and GGEM never had such a capture (or had it later), always keeping the track east.

 

Okay, thanks Ray. I was really counting on that tuck. So has the surface low been "captured" but further off the coast?

I was also hoping the snow shield on the west wouldn't be as chewed up as it was last night. Currently it look like what I would have expected.

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Okay, thanks Ray. I was really counting on that tuck. So has the surface low been "captured" but further off the coast?

I was also hoping the snow shield on the west wouldn't be as chewed up as it was last night. Currently it look like what I would have expected.

namussfcwbg.gif

Low is out by the cape.  If it had tucked earlier it would've been near the eastern end of LI and the big snow band that dropped up to 2 feet there would've been over NYC and Philly.

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namussfcwbg.gif

Low is out by the cape.  If it had tucked earlier it would've been near the eastern end of LI and the big snow band that dropped up to 2 feet there would've been over NYC and Philly.

I am still trying to figure things out too... it would appear that things slowed down some but not enough would argue not ample blocking to our northeast.

 

However not sure what to make of all the snow that fell in Central Pa that was moving due north and actually retrograding back to the west... I would suppose that was due to the low to our west being ingested into the main system.

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Absolutely disagree. This diabolical performance will only lead to the public not taking the next storm seriously, even if it actually should be. The Boy Crying Wolf Syndrome. How in the year 2015 we can't accurately call a storm, even as it's going on, is unbelievable. We have come nowhere in 15 years, evidently....Johnny Bo is feeling vindicated this morning, and as he should.

I certainly can understand this happening as well and I respect your opinion. My choice and opinion is to instinctively be prepared for what "could" happen and in the event it does not to find why the error. I can only summarize that when there was this much waffling between the models on a storm that didn't even show up in the medium\long term runs that the bust protential is pretty high.

Historically this has happened before. Hopefully, the professionals will figure out why and improve future forecasts.

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Absolutely disagree. This diabolical performance will only lead to the public not taking the next storm seriously, even if it actually should be. The Boy Crying Wolf Syndrome. How in the year 2015 we can't accurately call a storm, even as it's going on, is unbelievable. We have come nowhere in 15 years, evidently....Johnny Bo is feeling vindicated this morning, and as he should.

I agree that public safety was not well served but disagree on the performance.  The real meteorologists on this forum clearly stated the caveats of what the models were showing throughout this thread but none of that made it into the forecasts on the major networks.  That's not surprising as the "news" is more about hype and entertainment these days and nothing drives rating higher than a big storm. 

 

Enacting a statewide driving ban in NJ at 9PM last night was absurd considering how the storm was performing.  That is where the outrage should be directed, IMO.

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I certainly can understand this happening as well and I respect your opinion. My choice and opinion is to instinctively be prepared for what "could" happen and in the event it does not to find why the error. I can only summarize that when there was this much waffling between the models on a storm that didn't even show up in the medium\long term runs that the bust protential is pretty high.

Historically this has happened before. Hopefully, the professionals will figure out why and improve future forecasts.

Some people think like you do.  Others definitely don't.  They touched on this back in 1993 when the Weather Channel made a special about Superstorm 93.  They had a psychologist describe how a lot of people will consider past performance of their information source and judge it accordingly.

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i hate to be so simple, but i really think the number 1 factor was the Euro had the storm hitting PHL North hard, and most people (rightfully) consider the Euro the best model, and chose to ignore the dissenting models in fashioning a forecast.  A lot of times that has served them well---not this time.

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i hate to be so simple, but i really think the number 1 factor was the Euro had the storm hitting PHL North hard, and most people (rightfully) consider the Euro the best model, and chose to ignore the dissenting models in fashioning a forecast.  A lot of times that has served them well---not this time.

I'm dissapointed in those people.  Anyone who forecasts storms along the east coast should know that support is required especially when its only 24-36 hours out.  At the very least, some sort of compromise with all the other guidance showing significantly less snow should've happened.  Instead... the 12Z Euro on Sunday got inserted directly into a lot of forecasts verbatim.

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Well this shows that the meteorology world has a ways to go. While I know people are frustrated, there is not anything Mets can do right now to give 100% accuracy. They still warn or give the green light more accurately than inaccurately. Being a snow lover, I hate busts like this. But they happen.

Funny how the GFS was the least gung ho about the storm throughout and was right.

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The red flags were there the last two days we just chose to ignore them. Every major Delaware valley snowstorm will have universal model support going into the event but we only had the ECM. It was the reason why I was feeling a model blend was most prudent and was feeling 6-10", still too high of course.

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The red flags were there the last two days we just chose to ignore them. Every major Delaware valley snowstorm will have universal model support going into the event but we only had the ECM. It was the reason why I was feeling a model blend was most prudent and was feeling 6-10", still too high of course.

 

Yes, even a model blend would've been too high still.  I considered my 8-16 a blend between the GFS/GGEM/UKMET (on one side) and the EC on the other.  I think the GFS had like 0.9" QPF and the EC had almost 2" QPF at that point. Obviously that will be too high by a lot, but its a lot easier to correct down from 8-16 than from 18-24.

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