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Winter medium range model pbp I


GaWx

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What happened to the pattern being advertised a few days for this time period....been the theme all winter, people getting pumped up lecturing you about how great things look and time after time it fails, LOL.

 

That's not a good pattern? Oh please... the main features are still there for an overrunning event/Miller B.

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That's not a good pattern? Oh please... the main features are still there for an overrunning event/Miller B.

Agreed, but it's trending wrong direction, point was it looks nothing like day 10 model prog. Hearing the EPS doesn't support a winter storm, shocking.

I am curious to see what would happen if the whole low in Cali came out.

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Agreed, but it's trending wrong direction, point was it looks nothing like day 10 model prog. Hearing the EPS doesn't support a winter storm, shocking.

I am curious to see what would happen if the whole low in Cali came out.

 

The recent shifts haven't really been detrimental, if @ all in a broad sense, and I really don't see much of anything to complain about in the general pattern for this overrunning set-up, specifics are virtually meaningless for now & getting caught up into the precise output of the guidance at this stage is a huge mistake...

I would actually argue the trend hasn't been too detrimental here, and our main issue has been over the energy in the subtropical jet, and as the Euro ensembles especially are finally starting to rid themselves of the smeared, HLB look over the far north Pacific & have instead w/ better handling of upstream disturbances over Asia, have begun to transition to a far more transient/progressive regime. This is allowing our system to gain a bit more latitude & remain encapsulated within the westerly streamflow. Hence, the models have finally started to bring out this southern branch piece from the southwestern US/Baja and over the last few days, and wintry solutions are popping (once again) generally along & north of the I-40/64 corridors from the south-central Plains to the Carolinas & Virginia. Of course the progressive pattern comes at a price w/ the chunk of the PV remaining locked further north & east into eastern Canada, however, at least this gives us a fighting chance at something, if the extremely amplified regime held firm as was forecasted (a few days ago for this specific event) we may have very well observed another retrograding piece of energy in the southwestern US that became absorbed into the mean Gulf of Alaskan gyre...

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The recent shifts haven't really been detrimental, if @ all in a broad sense, and I really don't see much of anything to complain about in the general pattern for this overrunning set-up, specifics are virtually meaningless for now & getting caught up into the precise output of the guidance at this stage is a huge mistake...

I would actually argue the trend hasn't been too detrimental here, and our main issue has been over the energy in the subtropical jet, and as the Euro ensembles especially are finally starting to rid themselves of the smeared, HLB look over the far north Pacific & have instead w/ better handling of upstream disturbances over Asia, have begun to transition to a far more transient/progressive regime. This is allowing our system to gain a bit more latitude & remain encapsulated within the westerly streamflow. Hence, the models have finally started to bring out this southern branch piece from the southwestern US/Baja and over the last few days, and wintry solutions are popping (once again) generally along & north of the I-40/64 corridors from the south-central Plains to the Carolinas & Virginia. Of course the progressive pattern comes at a price w/ the chunk of the PV remaining locked further north & east into eastern Canada, however, at least this gives us a fighting chance at something, if the extremely amplified regime held firm as was forecasted (a few days ago for this specific event) we may have very well observed another retrograding piece of energy in the southwestern US that became absorbed into the mean Gulf of Alaskan gyre...

 

Essentially for this specific storm (if the amplified regime held longer something would have likely appeared thereafter, but that's an entirely different & rightfully unrelated matter) it's a trade off between having the pattern progressive enough to allow the energy in the southwestern US to kick out from underneath the PNA ridge & seeing enough amplification to drive cold air into the southeast, and quite frankly, I'll admit even in this nice synoptic setup, it's a delicate balance, and we likely won't know the sensible response to this pattern w/ confidence for about another 3-4 days...

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Essentially for this specific storm (if the amplified regime held longer something would have likely appeared thereafter, but that's an entirely different & rightfully unrelated matter) it's a trade off between having the pattern progressive enough to allow the energy in the southwestern US to kick out from underneath the PNA ridge & seeing enough amplification to drive cold air into the southeast, and quite frankly, I'll admit even in this nice synoptic setup, it's a delicate balance, and we likely won't know the sensible response to this pattern w/ confidence for about another 3-4 days...

 

Usually with no blocking we are having to time things like this which is why it's so tough, so we need a little luck.  If the PV gets much further north we will be to warm, if the -EPO holds on and it's razor thin, we could have seen stronger HP trying to build in as we got closer, but still up in the air and the EPS literally flips the EPO between day 6-7.  I still want to see a model run with the whole low coming out and the PV in SE Quebec with a strong -EPO.  That's not much to ask for...LOL

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The thing I'm running into with this setup is just the fact that we've seen it most of this winter on the models and it has ended the same way pretty much every single time. It's hard to bet against the streak. I think we still hold out until Thursday but I just don't have much faith. On a positive note the EPS didn't look terrible probably a couple of good member in that one. 

Agreed X10000000

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My post was not meant to say he is the only met who blew it this year but merely some have determined he is the reason we should give up (and he could now end up being correct). Every met and long range prognosticator (with 1-2 exceptions) has busted horribly for our area of the country so he is certainly not by himself. Fir the record, IMO he will likely be right by the odds and the winter will end just like it has been so far but nobody should give up or bet on one person's opinion 

Fair enough.  Agreed.

 

We could easily make up for the entire winter with one storm in late feb or march.  So we are still a LONG way from being done.  But we've all seen the trends thus far, and they don't appear much better headed into Feb.  So plant your lawn in the meantime and if you are lucky, it will be watered by an 8" snow around March 1st!

 

Sorry Burnsie.  Posted this right before you did.  Feel free to relocate.

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The 12z EPS mean is the best yet. GSO is over 3.25" now (up from 2" last night). I'd say about half the members are hits with a few big hitters. That being said, they're keying on different time frames. Some of the members are showing the D6 storm while some of the members are showing a big hit at D9. The D9 potential has more mean snowfall.

I would look at other cities, but I'm on mobile.

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The 12z EPS mean is the best yet. GSO is over 3.25" now (up from 2" last night). I'd say about half the members are hits with a few big hitters. That being said, they're keying on different time frames. Some of the members are showing the D6 storm while some of the members are showing a big hit at D9. The D9 potential has more mean snowfall.

I would look at other cities, but I'm on mobile.

 

Repeat of 2/12 last winter.   Overrunning event a couple of days before the coastal.   :weenie:  :bag:

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I've liked this setup since the middle of last week. It's pretty much the only one I've seen this year that has had real potential. It's got all the required elements for an overrunning snow to ice situation(preceeding cold front, layered cold air over the northeast w/ arctic hp over the plains, 50/50 low, stj activity... It would be a mistake to write it off right now. To me the euro doesn't make a lot of sense at the sfc or 500mb out west. The models are having a difficult time with that. The evolution of that will change several times b/n now and next monday.

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I've liked this setup since the middle of last week. It's pretty much the only one I've seen this year that has had real potential. It's got all the required elements for an overrunning snow to ice situation(preceeding cold front, layered cold air over the northeast w/ arctic hp over the plains, 50/50 low, stj activity... It would be a mistake to write it off right now. To me the euro doesn't make a lot of sense at the sfc or 500mb out west. The models are having a difficult time with that. The evolution of that will change several times b/n now and next monday.

 

Thanks, Brandon. Seemed like we needed a voice of reason today.

 

It's our best setup out of the crap setups so far this winter, so we might as well treat it as a potential threat without living and dying by every single model run from every single model.

 

It'll be interesting to see how today's monster storm and the midweek clipper plays into the amount of cold air available up north come Sunday.

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Sent from my iPhone

 

That's a nice look right there IMO.  Nice first post!!

 

Eh, I'm torn on this storm....Big picture I like the set up still....active STJ, some High pressure coming in from the north, pseudo Atlantic blocking (east based perhaps) digging western shortwaves, sinking PV near Hudson Bay, overall it's still a good look.  With that said, timing has to work just right and the ridge has to be nice and tall.  I doubt it all comes together JUST like it needs too.  Man I miss solid -NAOs. 

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GFS took a step but still not gonna cut it. 1040 high in the Dakotas....but of course it has now almost turned into a lakes cutter lol. Still a long way to go on this one folks. I think Brandon has the right thinking..not over yet. The fact that GFS is spitting out another solution but starting to see a strong high drop is probably a good sign. 

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