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1/13, 1/14 - Freezing rain threat


packfan98

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Just my opinion, but I don't consider the model's precip totals to be accurate enough to where a few hours of drizzle would make much of a difference.

 

Well I was more curious if they considered it at all. Not that I'm thinking it will matter much but I'd think heavy drizzle would accumulate pretty good on limbs and such. Again, not that I'm thinking it would matter much. 

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1PM actual Wet Bulb temp at RDU (Raleigh) is 34.8

 

12z Model Forecast Wet Bulb for 1PM at RDU

NAM - 36.9

GFS - 34.4

 

By deduction (lol) we can say that the GFS has a better handle on surface temps.  GFS has RDU with temp of 32, dewpoint of 29 at 7PM tonight.

 

They're going to have to hussle up and get down.  Looking upstream, temps are in the upper 30s into VA.

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Well I was more curious if they considered it at all. Not that I'm thinking it will matter much but I'd think heavy drizzle would accumulate pretty good on limbs and such. Again, not that I'm thinking it would matter much.

Ah, ok. Your question was about considering drizzle in QPF total. As for accumulations of ice, all things being equal a higher percentage of drizzle will freeze compared to a heavier rain. Of course there less liquid to begin with. It comes down to what it usually comes down to around here. You just have to wait and see how it plays out.
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Models take into account losing QPF to evaporation, BTW, so there's no need to correct for this unless you feel the dry air at the surface is underdone.

 

Ok, it was my understanding that was one of the weakness of the models, thanks for clearing that up. At any rate, models generally don't handle CAD scenarios well. One of the reasons is that they underestimate the surface layer cold dry air that ends up creating the huge inversion and locking the CAD in place. So I would lean to more drier air filtering in and reducing icing totals. On the other hand, this would lead to colder temperatures and a greater percentage of the rain freezing. Tough call.

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RAH update a few minutes ago(little bit of a bummer -- means no winter Storm Warnings for anybody):

 

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE RALEIGH NC
121 PM EST TUE JAN 13 2015

.SYNOPSIS...BLUSTERY NORTHERLY WINDS WILL USHER COLDER AIR INTO
CENTRAL NC TODAY. A SERIES OF UPPER LEVEL DISTURBANCES WILL
MAINTAIN AN UNSETTLED WEATHER PATTERN OVER THE CAROLINAS THROUGH
THURSDAY. HIGH PRESSURE WILL BUILD INTO THE AREA FOR THE WEEKEND.
&&

.NEAR TERM /THROUGH WEDNESDAY/...
AS OF 1130 AM TUESDAY...

STRONG HIGH PRESSURE WILL BUILD ACROSS THE GREAT LAKES AND INTO THE
NORTHEAST AND EXTEND INTO OUR REGION TODAY TRANSPORTING A COLDER AND
DRIER AIR MASS. TEMPERATURES HAVE ALREADY REACHED THEIR ZENITH
ACROSS CENTRAL NC AND WILL FALL VERY SLOWLY BUT REMAIN ABOVE
FREEZING THROUGH THE LATE AFTERNOON HOURS. A NARROW REGION OF
ISENTROPIC UPGLIDE ATOP THE DEEPENING SURFACE BASED COLD LAYER ALONG
WITH A WEAK DISTURBANCE ALOFT IS PRODUCING A FEW RAIN SHOWERS WITH
VERY LIMITED COVERAGE. WITH THE COLD AIR DAMMING IN PLACE...SPOTTY
DRIZZLE IS BEING REPORTED AS EXPECTED. HAVE ADJUSTED HOURLY
TEMPERATURE AND DEWPOINT FIELDS GIVEN RECENT OBSERVATIONS USING A
BLEND OF RECENT HRRR RUNS. HAVE ALSO INCREASED WIND GUSTS SLIGHTLY
AS THE HIGH SURGES INTO HE AREA. POPS FOR TODAY WILL RANGE FROM LOW
CHANCE VALUES ACROSS THE SOUTH AND SOUTHEAST TO SLIGHT CHANCE NEAR
THE VIRGINIA BORDER. -BLAES

UPDATE FOR TONIGHTS STORM...THE LATEST MODEL GUIDANCE HAS TRENDED
SLIGHTLY WARMER WITH TEMPERATURES ACROS THE SANDHILLS AND SOUTHERN
COASTAL PLAIN. SREF ENSEMBLE GUIDANCE SUGGESTS THAT SUB-FREEZING
TEMPERATURES WONT ARRIVE TIL A FEW HOURS AFTER MIDNIGHT IN THOSE
LOCATIONS WHICH WILL LIMIT THE OVERALL FREEZING RAIN ACCUMULATION
TOTALS. STILL EXPECT A SWEET SPOT WITH HIGHER AMOUNTS FURTHER NORTH
...MOST LIKELY RANGING BETWEEN 0.10 TO AS MUCH AS 0.20 INCHES IN A
REGION STRETCHING FROM SANFORD TO NEAR AND EAST OF RALEIGH TO
NASHVILLE. MORE DETAILS TO FOLLOW IN THE AFTERNOON FORECAST
DISCUSSION. -BLAES
 

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Ah, ok. Your question was about considering drizzle in QPF total. As for accumulations of ice, all things being equal a higher percentage of drizzle will freeze compared to a heavier rain. Of course there less liquid to begin with. It comes down to what it usually comes down to around here. You just have to wait and see how it plays out.

 

Yeah my bad, poorly written question on my part. Thanks for the reply... no more cluttering up of the thread :)

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RAH update a few minutes ago(little bit of a bummer -- means no winter Storm Warnings for anybody):

 

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE RALEIGH NC

121 PM EST TUE JAN 13 2015

.SYNOPSIS...BLUSTERY NORTHERLY WINDS WILL USHER COLDER AIR INTO

CENTRAL NC TODAY. A SERIES OF UPPER LEVEL DISTURBANCES WILL

MAINTAIN AN UNSETTLED WEATHER PATTERN OVER THE CAROLINAS THROUGH

THURSDAY. HIGH PRESSURE WILL BUILD INTO THE AREA FOR THE WEEKEND.

&&

.NEAR TERM /THROUGH WEDNESDAY/...

AS OF 1130 AM TUESDAY...

STRONG HIGH PRESSURE WILL BUILD ACROSS THE GREAT LAKES AND INTO THE

NORTHEAST AND EXTEND INTO OUR REGION TODAY TRANSPORTING A COLDER AND

DRIER AIR MASS. TEMPERATURES HAVE ALREADY REACHED THEIR ZENITH

ACROSS CENTRAL NC AND WILL FALL VERY SLOWLY BUT REMAIN ABOVE

FREEZING THROUGH THE LATE AFTERNOON HOURS. A NARROW REGION OF

ISENTROPIC UPGLIDE ATOP THE DEEPENING SURFACE BASED COLD LAYER ALONG

WITH A WEAK DISTURBANCE ALOFT IS PRODUCING A FEW RAIN SHOWERS WITH

VERY LIMITED COVERAGE. WITH THE COLD AIR DAMMING IN PLACE...SPOTTY

DRIZZLE IS BEING REPORTED AS EXPECTED. HAVE ADJUSTED HOURLY

TEMPERATURE AND DEWPOINT FIELDS GIVEN RECENT OBSERVATIONS USING A

BLEND OF RECENT HRRR RUNS. HAVE ALSO INCREASED WIND GUSTS SLIGHTLY

AS THE HIGH SURGES INTO HE AREA. POPS FOR TODAY WILL RANGE FROM LOW

CHANCE VALUES ACROSS THE SOUTH AND SOUTHEAST TO SLIGHT CHANCE NEAR

THE VIRGINIA BORDER. -BLAES

UPDATE FOR TONIGHTS STORM...THE LATEST MODEL GUIDANCE HAS TRENDED

SLIGHTLY WARMER WITH TEMPERATURES ACROS THE SANDHILLS AND SOUTHERN

COASTAL PLAIN. SREF ENSEMBLE GUIDANCE SUGGESTS THAT SUB-FREEZING

TEMPERATURES WONT ARRIVE TIL A FEW HOURS AFTER MIDNIGHT IN THOSE

LOCATIONS WHICH WILL LIMIT THE OVERALL FREEZING RAIN ACCUMULATION

TOTALS. STILL EXPECT A SWEET SPOT WITH HIGHER AMOUNTS FURTHER NORTH

...MOST LIKELY RANGING BETWEEN 0.10 TO AS MUCH AS 0.20 INCHES IN A

REGION STRETCHING FROM SANFORD TO NEAR AND EAST OF RALEIGH TO

NASHVILLE. MORE DETAILS TO FOLLOW IN THE AFTERNOON FORECAST

DISCUSSION. -BLAES

 

 

That was issued earlier today...a couple hours ago.

 

I do agree with the concern...the juxtaposition of cold/highest precip may not be ideal.  It would be nice to start to see the Rap and HRRR trend wetter, but I don't believe we're seeing that.

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RAH update a few minutes ago(little bit of a bummer -- means no winter Storm Warnings for anybody):

 

 

He mentions up to 0.20...that's only 0.05 away from warning criteria....it's still in the game IMO for the already issued Watch area.

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I'm very much a newb at this stuff, but SREFs for RDU show 0.4" mean with 8 above, 11 below. Nearly all the below fall between .2" and .4" while most of the ones above are 0.6" to 1". Nearly all of it is shows as ZR (some IP). Is SREF out dated these days? Or otherwise, why wouldn't you have a consensus forecast a bit higher than the 0.1-0.25" predictions?

 

In a sense we are all newbs in that no one has all the right answers.  For the SREF, I'd say the best way to view it is to take the SREF mean and use it as part of a multi-model consensus as opposed to solely using the SREF members or SREF Mean.  The GFS and Euro are both drier than the SREF mean for RDU.

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That was issued earlier today...a couple hours ago.

 

I do agree with the concern...the juxtaposition of cold/highest precip may not be ideal.  It would be nice to start to see the Rap and HRRR trend wetter, but I don't believe we're seeing that.

Here's the latest HRRR at hour 14(as far as I have) -- shows freezing rain from about your location north and west. If seems to lock on to this zone/area and doesn't move it much more east.  

 

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/Image.php?fhr=01400ℑ=data%2Fhrrr%2F17%2Fhrrr_east-us_01400_precip_type.gif&model=hrrr&area=east-us&param=precip_type&group=Model+Guidance&preselected_formatted_cycle_date=20150113+17+UTC&imageSize=M&ps=area&use_mins=yes

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Here's the latest HRRR at hour 14(as far as I have) -- shows freezing rain from about your location north and west. If seems to lock on to this zone/area and doesn't move it much more east.  

 

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/Image.php?fhr=01400ℑ=data%2Fhrrr%2F17%2Fhrrr_east-us_01400_precip_type.gif&model=hrrr&area=east-us&param=precip_type&group=Model+Guidance&preselected_formatted_cycle_date=20150113+17+UTC&imageSize=M&ps=area&use_mins=yes

 

Yeah, it kinda stays put.  Hard to tell how much actually falls.

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Latest HRRR sounding guidance suggests that RDU doesn't go below freezing until 04 UTC (11pm). Looks like a pretty significant warm nose above that. Another important point is the shallow nature of the moisture, which doesn't extend much above the warm nose. As the cold nose gets deeper that will probably mean a transition from freezing rain to a sleet/freezing rain mix as the event progresses into its later stages.

 

http://www.atmos.albany.edu/student/ppapin/lb13_img/hrrr/hrrr_ncep_snd_rdu.php

 

P.S. For those who are interested and since this event is more likely to impact central NC rather than areas further south and east, I've shifted the floater HRRR grid to be centered over Greensboro, NC for the latest model cycle (and will leave it there until further notice). 

 

http://www.atmos.albany.edu/student/ppapin/hrrr.php#flt

 

KGSO.gif

 

(images should be loading in real time... and it takes about 15 minutes to populate the images in full). This looper is nice because it also allows for enhanced mobile functionality (swipe left/right up/down to cycle through images). Questions and comments appreciated since this is still a work in progress! 

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Latest HRRR sounding guidance suggests that RDU doesn't go below freezing until 04 UTC (midnight). Looks like a pretty significant warm nose above that. Another important point is the shallow nature of the moisture, which doesn't extend much above the warm nose. As the cold nose gets deeper that will probably mean a transition from freezing rain to a sleet/freezing rain mix as the event progresses into its later stages.

 

http://www.atmos.albany.edu/student/ppapin/lb13_img/hrrr/hrrr_ncep_snd_rdu.php

04 UTC is 11pm I thought? EST?

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Those sounds look to go below freezing by 10-11...  marginally at least

 

I think we are headed for another dreaded, freezing on elevated surfaces event.  30-31º just won't get it done at ground level. There is more latent heat in the ground than you think, even after the recent quick cold snap.  Of course, given enough precip at a slow enough rate, you can still have a significant event with ice build up on trees.

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