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Winter 2014-2015 Pattern Discussion Thread III


BIG FROSTY

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I will preface this by saying that I could totally be wrong, but here's why I think we'd see more snow.

We have a lot of winter storms due to CAD. Without it, we may very well have less winter weather overall. Outside of the NW zones, very often winter storms result in zr, ip, and rn in addition to snow (and even the NW zones mix sometimes). CAD can and does provide a roadblock of sorts to storms trying to track west of the Apps, up the Apps, or through the Piedmont. The result is often Miller Bs or something along those lines.

Without the mountains and CAD, we would probably end up with more storms tracking west of us or over us. But it's likely that the NW portion of the storm would be more likely to be snow than such wide areas of mixing or ice. Also, clippers would be a lot more effective at producing snow here. Additionally, in situations where we're waiting on cold to catch the moisture to turn us over from rain to snow, it wouldn't get hung up on the mountains and would actually filter in in time to see the rain change to snow much more often.

We may end up not getting lots of snow from clippers or from rain changing to snow events, but it would probably be more than what we'd lose from the snow we currently get from CAD-induced mixy winter storms.

As for instances where you have a low pressure tracking south of you and high pressure to the north, you might actually see more situations where you have snow, as cold air would probably have an easier time getting drawn south (or filtering south) ahead of and into the storm. The same situation now, might result in a good low track but the cold not able to make it over the mountains in time.

So my guess is, we'd lose some snow due to lack of CAD. We'd see less overall winter storms. We'd see less mix/ice. But what we lose with mixy CAD storms, we'd make up for (and then some) with clippers, cold chasing moisture systems, and possibly even better production from lows tracking to our south that are marginal or slightly too warm today. That's my rationale, which I fully admit, might be in error.

 

 The situation we just experienced is a relative rare one that may have allowed ZR/IP in ATL and more precip (less drying up by the ridge). However, the 850's quite possibly would have been hardly affected since it is the shallow air mainly below ~3K ft elevation that is blocked in these rare shallow cold front situations. So, I doubt there would have been snow behind the front, regardless.

 

 Clippers would probably still not be a big deal in ATL imo. They wouldn't dry up as much but they probably still wouldn't be all that moist coming from the dry NW direction and it probably wouldn't be that much colder in clipper situations since those aren't shallow cold front setups.

 

 Overall for ATL-AHN, CAD rules and leads to much more wintry wx than the mtns block imo. Snow, itself, could perhaps be near a wash..who knows? I assume that the cold from CAD will occasionally lead to more snow than we'd otherwise have due to colder lower levels preventing melting.

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The situation we just experienced is a relative rare one that may have allowed ZR/IP in ATL and more precip (less drying up by the ridge). However, the 850's quite possibly would have been hardly affected since it is the shallow air mainly below ~3K ft elevation that is blocked in these rare shallow cold front situations. So, I doubt there would have been snow behind the front, regardless.

Clippers would probably still not be a big deal in ATL imo. They wouldn't dry up as much but they probably still wouldn't be all that moist coming from the dry NW direction and it probably wouldn't be that much colder in clipper situations since those aren't shallow cold front setups.

Overall for ATL-AHN, CAD rules and leads to much more wintry wx than the mtns block imo. Snow, itself, could perhaps be near a wash..who knows? I assume that the cold from CAD will occasionally lead to more snow than we'd otherwise have due to colder lower levels preventing melting.

I admit, I'm a little NC biased when it comes to clippers. I think we'd do a lot better than we do now.

But for all of us, I wonder if it would tell us anything if we looked at locations at similar latitudes west of the Apps? Maybe not.

Question for ya though: If the mountains were not there, why would it be any less cold, if you have a high pressure zone anchored north of us? The mountains dam up the air, so I can see how that helps when high pressure leaves. But as long as hp is in a good spot, we'd still get cold enough for winter storms, right?

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I admit, I'm a little NC biased when it comes to clippers. I think we'd do a lot better than we do now.

But for all of us, I wonder if it would tell us anything if we looked at locations at similar latitudes west of the Apps? Maybe not.

Question for ya though: If the mountains were not there, why would it be any less cold, if you have a high pressure zone anchored north of us? The mountains dam up the air, so I can see how that helps when high pressure leaves. But as long as hp is in a good spot, we'd still get cold enough for winter storms, right?

 

 With no CAD and despite the high, I think that there'd often be more veering of winds away from NE and E to a warmer SE from the warmer Atlantic as a low forms and moves ENE or E in the Gulf.

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What do you think our winter weather would be if the earth rotated the opposite direction?

We'd probably be warmer in the winter and colder in the summer with the ocean moderating things. Probably not a good thing.

I like turning WV and TN into a lake and bulldozing the mountains. NW flow LE snow!!!

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We'd probably be warmer in the winter and colder in the summer with the ocean moderating things. Probably not a good thing.

I like turning WV and TN into a lake and bulldozing the mountains. NW flow LE snow!!!

 

The coal industry is doing its best to bulldoze the mountains of Kentucky and West Virginia.  Maybe they will just keep going below sea level.

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My God. I ventured in here hoping to find a bunch of folks happily talking about the spring weather pattern coming up and stumble into this de-evolution.

(Quietly steps out)

See you guys for the severe threads. Dont hurt each other.

not yet when there is still snow possibilities.  maybe I'll be with ya around april 1.

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 Suddenly the Euro weeklies that some people bashed when they showed no winter weather are now being trotted out as evidence of blocking and cold coming by the same folks who said they were garbage when they didn't show blocking o cold.  Talk about a mental disorder.  All hail King Euro, it is a great model but jeezz guys bi polar much?

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Suddenly the Euro weeklies that some people bashed when they showed no winter weather are now being trotted out as evidence of blocking and cold coming by the same folks who said they were garbage when they didn't show blocking o cold. Talk about a mental disorder. All hail King Euro, it is a great model but jeezz guys bi polar much?

Too early for the bourbon man.It is Friday and all, but still....

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Suddenly the Euro weeklies that some people bashed when they showed no winter weather are now being trotted out as evidence of blocking and cold coming by the same folks who said they were garbage when they didn't show blocking o cold. Talk about a mental disorder. All hail King Euro, it is a great model but jeezz guys bi polar much?

Is that being stated towards me? I think the weeklies were a bit off early in the season then got better as we progressed towards a more stable EPO pattern. Also the euro has had some big busts this winter as every other model. I like the look of the weeklies because there is building consensus of the epo rebuilding and the pna spiking again.
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Is that being stated towards me? I think the weeklies were a bit off early in the season then got better as we progressed towards a more stable EPO pattern. Also the euro has had some big busts this winter as every other model. I like the look of the weeklies because there is building consensus of the epo rebuilding and the pna spiking again.

Good post, The Euro has busted a lot here.... But like you said it's weeklies looks more realistic now than all winter from the Videos and post I've been reading from JB and others... He said if the NAO can go Negative look out...And he thinks it will, but no guarantee. March 20 thru April10 is target range....We will probably have -EPO, and a +PNA (If we can get the Neg. NAO)? It could be party time especially in the Mountains and maybe lower elevations? :snowing:  I think THE KING  has predicted over 60 inches of snow for me so far this season, I have had 13 inches... lol

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Good post, The Euro has busted a lot here.... But like you said it's weeklies looks more realistic now than all winter from the Videos and post I've been reading from JB and others... He said if the NAO can go Negative look out...And he thinks it will, but no guarantee. March 20 thru April10 is target range....We will probably have -EPO, and a +PNA (If we can get the Neg. NAO)? It could be party time especially in the Mountains and maybe lower elevations? :snowing: I think THE KING has predicted over 60 inches of snow for me so far this season, I have had 13 inches... lol

lol yeah not the winter most thought nor what I thought. Yeah I'm not sold on the nao but there are hints of it in the mid range. I do like the pattern going forward from mid month on towards April.
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lol yeah not the winter most thought nor what I thought. Yeah I'm not sold on the nao but there are hints of it in the mid range. I do like the pattern going forward from mid month on towards April.

hopefully we can end this winter with a big storm we all look back and remember.
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