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Winter 2014-2015 Pattern Discussion Thread III


BIG FROSTY

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Im focusing my job search on TN and MI, and AL. This state sucks for winter weather lol

If by MI, you mean Michigan, that's an easy choice. If you meant Mississippi , your 0-3 , they all suck and I would just stick with CLT!

On topic, that snow map the GFS just spot out, I'm going to Roxboro and visit my sister! :)

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Well I usually only fire the bus up if I feel its a sure thing. But what the heck, if it crashes and burns Ill get another next season.

It's ready to roll for Thursday's event, who's on board?

I'm out of bus tickets ! I used my last one last week, and it ended in a fiery inferno! I'm ready for spring, and have crap to plant, you may be the only one on this bus, but you NC boys will probly be good!
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I would caution anyone at this point of buying to hard on the GFS snow maps lol....or the Euro for that matter. Right now the key is the setup....WPC latest says it best but overall the look is pretty good I think for NC to at least see some winter weather how much is still a huge ?

 

EXTENDED FORECAST DISCUSSION
NWS WEATHER PREDICTION CENTER COLLEGE PARK MD
1100 AM EST SUN MAR 01 2015

VALID 12Z WED MAR 04 2015 - 12Z SUN MAR 08 2015

 

OVER THE CENTRAL...SOUTHERN AND EASTERN PORTIONS OF THE LOWER 48---
THE DAY 3 EASTERN NORTH AMERICAN LONG-WAVE TROUGH AND ST LAWRENCE
VALLEY CYCLONE MIGRATION---CONTINUES TO SHOW SIGNS OF GENERATING
AN 'ANA-TYPE' FRONTAL STRUCTURE FROM NORTHEAST TEXAS TO THE
CAROLINAS (AND THE I-10 TO I-20 CORRIDOR FOR A TIME)...WITH THE
LEADING EDGE OF THE CANADIAN AIRMASS SPREADING OUT AND
'UNDERGLIDING'---TAKING PLACE IN ADVANCE OF THE UPPER-LEVEL JET
SUPPORT (AROUND THE 5/12Z TIME FRAME). THE DETERMINISTIC
GFS...CANADIAN AND ECMWF EXIT THE UPPER-LEVEL JET AXIS BETWEEN
CAPE HATTERAS AND CAPE MAY BY 7/00Z. HOWEVER...THERE IS JUST
ENOUGH LATITUDE DIFFERENCE IN THE JET-LEVEL WIND
FORECASTS---BETWEEN THESE 3 DETERMINISTIC SOLUTIONS---TO CREATE
UNCERTAINTY ON DAY 6 ALONG THE EASTERN SEABOARD AND ACROSS THE
SOUTHEAST.

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If by MI, you mean Michigan, that's an easy choice. If you meant Mississippi , your 0-3 , they all suck and I would just stick with CLT!

On topic, that snow map the GFS just spot out, I'm going to Roxboro and visit my sister! :)

 

Let's do Twin Tops... then some burn outs in the snow :pimp:

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If by MI, you mean Michigan, that's an easy choice. If you meant Mississippi , your 0-3 , they all suck and I would just stick with CLT!

On topic, that snow map the GFS just spot out, I'm going to Roxboro and visit my sister! :)

. Come on up. We still have snow on the ground.
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This isn't correct there will be plenty of cold air east of the MTS even in N GA, again it depends on when and where...this could be a much longer duration event than what the models hint at a stalled/washed out frontal boundry with a strong cold arctic high pumping into the back of it with a overrunning STJ could be a really insane thing see much less in March

 

 

This 2M shot is insane for March on the snow cover in NC that's a 3 at RDU and 7 here WTF...also if that snow map comes true I would be insanely happy

 

 

 I think that a better way to say it is that I think that the mountains to the NW will make it such that once the cold air really gets into ATL that the precip. will be limited...more like the 0.01" qpf /very limited 12Z Euro wintry precip. than the 8-10 hour long 0.25" wintry qpf 12Z GFS, which in itself would be a significant event and the biggest of the season for many.

 

 What helps is to be familiar with one's own local terrain/climo in this kind of situation and to be able to recall past similar situations for the area though this is a bit unique/uncommon. I'm definitely incorporating this in my thoughts. The 12Z Euro agrees.

 

 I think it would take something like a new low to form over the E GoM. something I'm not currently expecting.

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I'm out of bus tickets ! I used my last one last week, and it ended in a fiery inferno! I'm ready for spring, and have crap to plant, you may be the only one on this bus, but you NC boys will probly be good!

Mack you got on one of those short yellow buses at your bus stop instead that big nice new yellow one I was driving. Pack even got on, even though it had the "who needs a negative nao/ ao pattern school district" painted on the side.
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 I think that a better way to say it is that I think that the mountains to the NW will make it such that once the cold air really gets into ATL that the precip. will be limited...more like the 0.01" qpf /very limited 12Z Euro wintry precip. than the 8-10 hour long 0.25" wintry qpf 12Z GFS, which in itself would be a significant event and the biggest of the season for many.

 

 What helps is to be familiar with one's own local terrain/climo in this kind of situation and to be able to recall past similar situations for the area. I'm definitely incorporating this in my thoughts.

 

 I think it would take something like a new low to form over the E GoM. something I'm not currently expecting.

 

yeah your best hope is a setup where the cold filters in with lots of overrunning moisture provided by the STJ cutting up the east coast over the cold for a extended period of time....the bust potential is high here even after onset as QPF totals will be hard to nail down and areas expecting more could get less and vice versa.

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TUESDAY NIGHT...THE NEXT COLD FRONT WILL APPROACH...AND WITH
INCREASING SW LOW LEVEL FLOW AHEAD OF IT...THE CAD SHOULD SCOUR OUT
WITH TEMPS TUE NIGHT ACTUALLY RISING THRU THE NIGHT WITH VIGOROUS
WAA AHEAD OF THE FRONT. IN FACT...BY- OR SHORTLY AFTER SUNRISE
WED...TEMPS WILL BE IN THE 50S ACROSS OUR ENTIRE CWA. WITH FROPA
DURING THE AFTERNOON...WE COULD SEE TEMPS RISE WELL INTO THE 60S
DURING THE MORNING...PERHAPS BREAKING THE 70 DEGREE MARK ACROSS OUR
SE ZONES. AS FOR RAIN CHANCES...LOOK FOR POPS TO INCREASE FROM NW TO
SE THRU THE DAY WED...WHILE IT STILL LOOKS LIKE THE BULK OF THE
PRECIP WILL BE FOUND RIGHT ALONG OR JUST BEHIND THE FRONT...WHICH
WILL LINGER WEDNESDAY NIGHT THROUGH MUCH OF THE DAY THURSDAY AS
MIDLEVEL FLOW BECOMES PARALLEL TO THE FRONT...AND A STEADY FETCH OF
DEEP MOISTURE IS TRANSPORTED OVERTOP A COOLING POST-FRONTAL LOW
LEVEL AIRMASS. SPEAKING OF THE COOLING LOW LEVEL AIRMASS...LOW LEVEL
THICKNESSES ARE PROGGED TO PLUMMET IN THE WAKE OF THE FRONT...FROM
~1380M 00Z THU TO ~1265M BY 10Z THU. SOME OF THE GUIDANCE SUGGESTS
TEMPS MAY HOLD IN THE 20S DURING THE DAY THU! GIVEN THE
AFOREMENTIONED LINGERING MOISTURE PLUME...ASSUMING THIS MODEL
SOLUTION HOLDS...ITS BEGINNING TO LOOK A LITTLE MORE LIKELY THAT WE
MAY BE DEALING WITH SOME SORT OF WINTER P-TYPE EVENT DURING THE
DAYTIME THURSDAY. THE MAIN QUESTION IS HOW MUCH...AS QPF PROGS STILL
VARY QUITE A BIT...WITH GFS QPF ROUGHLY TWICE AS MUCH AS THE ECMWF
DURING THE 12Z THU TO 00Z FRI PERIOD. PLEASE STAY TUNED!

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Larry, I believe the ice in 1994 bled over from the northwest but it took forever to get here. We did end up with a good glaze but not the catastrophic storm in TN and AL. Probably not the same setup but it's the only ice I remember from a non CAD setup. That storm was the best sledding I've ever had. We had a solid 1/4" on the pavement with a little snow on top.

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Larry, I believe the ice in 1994 bled over from the northwest but it took forever to get here. We did end up with a good glaze but not the catastrophic storm in TN and AL. Probably not the same setup but it's the only ice I remember from a non CAD setup. That storm was the best sledding I've ever had. We had a solid 1/4" on the pavement with a little snow on top.

 

Exactly when in 1994 was this event? I want to look at it more closely. Thanks in advance.

 

If you don't know the exact date, do you recall it it was in, say, early Jan, mid Jan, late Jan, early Feb, other etc.?

 

Edit: I think I may have found it. Somewhere near 2/11/1994?

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Exactly when in 1994 was this event? I want to look at it more closely. Thanks in advance.

 

If you don't know the exact date, do you recall it it was in, say, early Jan, mid Jan, late Jan, early Feb, other etc.?

 

Edit: I think I may have found it. Somewhere near 2/11/1994?

Yep that's it. It hit parts of Miss, TN, and AL very hard. The Carolinas were hit too when CAD came in from VIrginia, but nothing like what happened back to the west.

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Yep that's it. It hit parts of Miss, TN, and AL very hard. The Carolinas were hit too when CAD came in from VIrginia, but nothing like what happened back to the west.

What were the temps and how strong was this cold air in 94 when compared to this one? If it's showing enough cold for all that frozen In NC, maybe it will be stronger and the models are undersestimating the cold air. I think I saw a low of 2 for AL somewhere Fri morning?!!
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 I think that a better way to say it is that I think that the mountains to the NW will make it such that once the cold air really gets into ATL that the precip. will be limited...more like the 0.01" qpf /very limited 12Z Euro wintry precip. than the 8-10 hour long 0.25" wintry qpf 12Z GFS, which in itself would be a significant event and the biggest of the season for many.

 

 What helps is to be familiar with one's own local terrain/climo in this kind of situation and to be able to recall past similar situations for the area though this is a bit unique/uncommon. I'm definitely incorporating this in my thoughts. The 12Z Euro agrees.

 

 I think it would take something like a new low to form over the E GoM. something I'm not currently expecting.

 

Larry - I completely agree with your assessment of the upcoming event....I think I can remember one time in the last 20 yrs. or so when we had a situation with post frontal moisture like this and cold air "rushing" in......I think it resulted in about 20 minutes of sleet/snow, and then starry skies within the hour.  Although like you said nothing is impossible, without a secondary wave of low pressure forming in the gulf it's not gonna happen here east of the mountains.

 

- Buck

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Yep that's it. It hit parts of Miss, TN, and AL very hard. The Carolinas were hit too when CAD came in from VIrginia, but nothing like what happened back to the west.

It was '94. I lived in MS at the time....you want nothing like that.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/jan/?n=1994_deltaicestorm-pictures

http://www.nwas.org/digest/papers/1996/Vol20No3/Pg15-Pfost.pdf

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What were the temps and how strong was this cold air in 94 when compared to this one? If it's showing enough cold for all that frozen In NC, maybe it will be stronger and the models are undersestimating the cold air. I think I saw a low of 2 for AL somewhere Fri morning?!!

Here in our area, rain turned to freezing rain around 6-7 pm that Thursday and continued through the night. Temps got back to around 32-33 around 9 am on Friday and stayed there until late afternoon when they warmed up to around 36-37. All ice had melted by nightfall, at least here in Jonesville.

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Looks like parts of the SE and Mid-South are going to see more wintry weather this week. My thoughts on that, plus a little model watching.  Check out the video for more.  Thanks everyone! -Chris

https://www.facebook.com/ChriswxmanSimmons

Good overview.... and to prove I actually did watch it --- I caught your correction on "South Little Rock" ;)

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18z is a sleetfest for much of nc.  meh.

Finally the GFS backs off from it's silly solution...0.03" of snow this run, pretty big change. The timing isn't that ideal either. This also isn't a rain/snow soultion so I hate the fact that we could get a ZR/sleetfest. It would be a nuisance more than anything.

 

quqm5IN.png

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