Powerball Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 A phased storm gives it more lift and this increases instability causing the trough to go more negatively titled. If this system phases and causes the trough to take on a negative tilt too soon, that would force a further NW track and draw even more warm air northward. Wouldn't that be bad for Toronto if you're looking forward to a snowstorm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowlover2 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Only 900 miles apart. Nice upgrade GFS GFS: GFS-PARA Not to mention a whole day slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Not to mention a whole day slower. Must have gotten some corrupt data? This seems impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Storm Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Must have gotten some corrupt data? This seems impossible. No. The evolution of everything is totally different on each model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Storm Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Only 900 miles apart. Nice upgrade GFS I think you fail to realize they're not the same model. So one shouldn't expect them to show a similar solution, especially this far out and with this kind of set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I think you fail to realize they're not the same model. So one shouldn't expect them to show a similar solution, especially this far out and with this kind of set-up. Oh, I was under the impression it was just an upgraded version of the originally GFS with higher resolution. http://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/GFS/impl.php https://forum.netweather.tv/topic/81409-gfs-upgrade-coming-november-2014/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Storm Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Oh, I was under the impression it was just an upgraded version of the originally GFS with higher resolution. http://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/GFS/impl.php https://forum.netweather.tv/topic/81409-gfs-upgrade-coming-november-2014/ It is an upgraded version, with higher resolution and several other changes...which essentially makes it a totally different model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Really? Around D6-7 with the Xmas storm there were a number of solutions showing a RA to sig. SN transition across the eastern Lakes. It was to the point where I think you even categorically stated that there should be at least "some" accumulating snow iyby on Christmas Eve/day. If we compare apples to apples I think the raw potential between the two storms this many days out are comparable (if not slightly weighed in favour of the Xmas storm because of the bomb potential). I did state that I would see some accum snow. From day 1 when that storm was on the models, I was amazed at how outstanding the model agreement on wraparound snow/LES was on all models for Christmas day (which in the end didnt pan out at all, as in not one flake). I was banking on that to see some light accums, and seeing the signal in that stronger than usual for wraparound (which can often fail), I had a very good feel about that. However, from day 1, I was also probably the least excited weenie on these boards, because there really were no favorable solutions IMO. There were a few that showed rain to snow, but even those had startlingly warm surface temps...so while everyone else was hoping/banking that the phase would draw its own cold, the L would be super strong, etc etc...it looked like a bonifide rainstorm to me with wraparound snow, regardless of low track. I was never excited at all (the bomb solutions didnt excite me, because they still showed rain, and I could not care how meteorologically rare a storm is in the winter if its not snow for me). This storm on the other hand seems to have much more wintry POTENTIAL. And its funny that there was decent model agreement 7-8 days out and now that we are 5 days out the models are once again going everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 It is an upgraded version, with higher resolution and several other changes...which essentially makes it a totally different model. Makes sense. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowstorms Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 If this system phases and causes the trough to take on a negative tilt too soon, that would force a further NW track and draw even more warm air northward. Wouldn't that be bad for Toronto if you're looking forward to a snowstorm? True. I guess timing is everything with this storm. A much slower southern stream means less amplification (less uplift), and a more further south track like what the Para GFS shows. If however, the trough diggers further south, we can get more amplification because of the stronger Jet streak, and this will allow the storm to go more NE than N.Compared to the Xmas storm, we do have more abundant cold air to work with thanks to the EPO ridge and stronger Polar jet stream. The strong SE Ridge on the 0z GFS is not good though, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowlover2 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 0z GGEM looks similar to the PGFS except less precip/snow on the north side. Only gets to the OH River. Faster too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerball Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 00z GGEM is suppressed as well, even more so than the pGFS. But as a consolation, it brings a decent clipper through here between 198hr and 228hr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Storm Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 The difference between the 0z OP GFS and the 0z P-GFS/12z ECMWF is how the northern stream is handled. The OP GFS has much more northern stream influence and phasing (and early in the sequence), where the other two not so much... Northern stream never really gets involved much until the southern stream wave is moving into the OV, where it's picked up by the flow and speeds east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowlover2 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 0z Euro looks like it tracks from southern LA to east TN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Looks like another wasted potential with this one, not a good run for the subforum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeye Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 ummm, anyone else noticing a pattern with storm potentials this winter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWXwx Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 ummm, anyone else noticing a pattern with storm potentials this winter? Yeah, I'm noticing that the northern stream needs to grow a pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitelakeroy Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 ummm, anyone else noticing a pattern with storm potentials this winter? Yep ... la la land time snowstorms never getting to real time ... reality has been either cool & dry or mild & wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeye Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Pass you have the place kicker ready to punt January yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitelakeroy Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 you have the place kicker ready to punt January yet? I think Alex is already aboard the train to winter 15/16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeye Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I think Alex is already aboard the train to winter 15/16 lol... oh yea, and I guess a punter doesn't use a place kicker....but you know what i mean. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Only 900 miles apart. Nice upgrade GFS GFS: GFS-PARA The last storm the GFS was closer to reality than the pGFS. In fact, the NAM was the winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Just noticed the 06Z GFS fell in line with the others. Southern storm with almost no cold sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerball Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 While many solutions are on the table (even the elusive MSP special), I would definitely lean the direction of a Ohio Valley-southward storm, Models in these setups tend to always be too quick to send those orphaned shortwaves in the SW eastward, and usually the extent of northern stream interaction needed to allow for the non-suppressed solutions is just missed. Just a slightly faster ejection of the SW shortwave or the northern stream shortwave setting up just a bit further west will allow for the non-suppressed solutions though. May have nailed it... If so, +1 for me!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowstorms Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 The 12z GFS comes north compared to the 6z GFS. Wow! This model went through a 500+ mile shift in 3 runs, lol. Weaker amplification with this run. Trough stays mostly neutral, not much negativity until it reaches the great lakes region. Models are all over the place. I wouldn't buy anything yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Gino at LOT rubbing it in about Las Vegas STRONG TROUGH WILL TO DIG INTO THE DESERT SOUTHWEST NEW YEARS EVE AND IS FORECAST TO PRODUCE ACCUMULATING SNOW ON THE LAS VEGAS STRIP NEW YEARS EVE WHERE WINTER STORM WATCHES ARE IN EFFECT! THIS POWERFUL SYSTEM IS PROGGED TO CLOSE OFF A LARGE DEEP CIRCULATION THAT BECOMES CUT OFF FROM THE WESTERLIES. A SET UP LIKE THIS MORE OFTEN THAN NOT SPELLS BIG TROUBLES FOR PREDICTABILITY IN THE MEDIUM RANGE AS THIS SYSTEM WILL PRESENT A COUPLE OF THE THINGS THAT MODELS STRUGGLE WITH...FIRST HANDLING TRACK/TIMING OF EJECTING SOUTHWEST CUT OFFS AND SECOND THE POTENTIAL FOR PHASING WITH NORTHERN STREAM SHORTWAVE ENERGY. THE RANGE OF POSSIBILITIES FOR THE WEEKEND IN OUR AREA TRULY RUN THE GAMUT FROM DRY CONDITIONS ALL WEEKEND TO RAIN...ACCUMULATING SNOW...A WINTRY MIX...OR SOME COMBINATION OF THE ABOVE. THE OPERATIONAL GFS IS MOST GUNG-HO WITH PHASING AND FASTEST EJECTING THE LOW EASTWARD...WHICH WOULD SEEM TO COUNTER WHAT IS TYPICAL IN THESE SCENARIOS. THE PARALLEL GFS AND ECMWF ARE BOTH SOUTH AND SLOWER WITH THE SYSTEM AND WOULD LEAD TO A DRY WEEKEND IN OUR AREA. THE BLENDED MODEL POPS FOR THE WEEKEND HAVE COME DOWN FROM PREVIOUS CYCLES AND AM NOT PLANNING ANY CHANGES TO THEM AS PREDICTABILITY IS JUST TOO LOW AT THIS POINT. AT THIS POINT THE CHANCES OF THE LAS VEGAS STRIP SEEING MORE ACCUMULATING SNOW THE NEXT 7 DAYS IS CURRENTLY HIGHER THAN HERE IN OUR CWA...QUITE ATYPICAL AND DEFINITELY NOT SOMETHING THAT ONE WOULD TYPICALLY WAGER WOULD BE THE CASE! IZZI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 so glad i haven't spent time tracking this turd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 The 12z GFS comes north compared to the 6z GFS. Wow! This model went through a 500+ mile shift in 3 runs, lol. Weaker amplification with this run. Trough stays mostly neutral, not much negativity until it reaches the great lakes region. Models are all over the place. I wouldn't buy anything yet. Not sure if I know what you're talking about. We actually have more amplification on this run compared to 6z, especially with the northern stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowstorms Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Not sure if I know what you're talking about. We actually have more amplification on this run compared to 6z, especially with the northern stream. gfs.gif I was comparing it to the 0z, my bad. Should have detailed my post a bit more. But yeah, more amplification this run compared to the 6z. Still doesn't help our cause especially when the model shifts 500 miles in 3 runs, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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