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January Med/Long Range Disco


WinterWxLuvr

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HM, that does make sense. Where I fail is understanding the connection between the strat and trop and how they "play together" outside of a legit SSW event that downwells.

My biggest question is when seeing temporary splits like we are experiencing as we speak, does this affect NH circ and allow the trop PV to get displaced out of the arctic? Or is what's happening right now just a coincidence? Obviously the AO is still solid + but a pretty nice intrusion of arctic air is happening.

OTOH, if the epo/scand ridges caused the split I suppose there doesn't have to be any connection because they are driving the current pattern. It's typical for these features in the troposphere to drive arctic air southward regardless of the state of the strat PV.

Is the temporary split we're having now completely inconsequential to the part of the atmosphere we care about or is it helping in some way even though it's going to be transient?

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Yes, when I said anything is possible I meant plenty of op to fail too and also a big/organized storm is something we probably don't want. Weak waves or >1k lows running into cold air would be the ticket. Obviously having an imperfect pattern during peak temp climo isn't nearly as worrisome as opposed to the fringe periods.

Looks like the euro is stepping away from a big relaxation like the gefs. We'll battle low heights out west for a time. 3-5 days? Ridging builds pretty quick over AK and a +pna will probably kick back in. -NAO still very much not in the cards. We can't even get teased by it on the models except for a stray 360hr gfs op run.

 

Euro ENS has a pretty nice signal for d10...I know I know 10 days out. :)  Congrats to you all on the snow.  I haven't been following it in this forum, but it seems like it was an over performer.  Nice to get one under the belt.

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Euro ENS has a pretty nice signal for d10...I know I know 10 days out. :) Congrats to you all on the snow. I haven't been following it in this forum, but it seems like it was an over performer. Nice to get one under the belt.

There is a growing # of southern frozen solutions on the euro ens from d8-12. You NC guys in the piedmont/westward are probably going to get something. Maybe everything by the looks of it! lol.

Today was a great day. I got lucky this go around. Clipper jackpots skip me (and DC) 4 out of 5 times. I took my teenage daughter out for winter driving lessons today. We had a lot of fun and didn't wreck. haha

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HM, that does make sense. Where I fail is understanding the connection between the strat and trop and how they "play together" outside of a legit SSW event that downwells.

My biggest question is when seeing temporary splits like we are experiencing as we speak, does this affect NH circ and allow the trop PV to get displaced out of the arctic? Or is what's happening right now just a coincidence? Obviously the AO is still solid + but a pretty nice intrusion of arctic air is happening.

OTOH, if the epo/scand ridges caused the split I suppose there doesn't have to be any connection because they are driving the current pattern. It's typical for these features in the troposphere to drive arctic air southward regardless of the state of the strat PV.

Is the temporary split we're having now completely inconsequential to the part of the atmosphere we care about or is it helping in some way even though it's going to be transient?

 

That polar vortex nearby in Canada is intimately connected to one of the split PVs in the stratosphere. In a splitting scenario, they are usually vertically aligned and look like cone tornadoes. If some wave is capable of splitting this massive wedge tornado into two cone tornadoes, then the tropospheric polar vortex will also follow along. The PV displacement we are seeing and this record cold is from the breaking waves directly....they not only worked to displace the vortex in horizontal direction (EPO high etc.) but they gave momentum to sending that massive polar vortex southward too.

 

Down the road, the vortex has been significantly compromised. The next set of waves will have an easier time destroying this sucker...a sucker that has more "spin" and angular momentum than one would have speculated back in October. But the wave activity and strength is behaving in tandem with those factors.

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There is a growing # of southern frozen solutions on the euro ens from d8-12. You NC guys in the piedmont/westward are probably going to get something. Maybe everything by the looks of it! lol.

Today was a great day. I got lucky this go around. Clipper jackpots skip me (and DC) 4 out of 5 times. I took my teenage daughter out for winter driving lessons today. We had a lot of fun and didn't wreck. haha

 

That made me laugh.  If you do that down here, someone will probably wreck her.  Lots of bad winter drivers here.  Good luck to us on the 10 day thing!

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The hybrid PNA to Nino pattern will be short-lived as more anticyclones break up there in the EPO-AO domain. Things are again becoming ripe for some type of eastern US cyclonic wave breaker (like xmas) around the 20th or so....maybe this time it will actually work out properly. This last time worked out sorta but it was lame.

It's been relatively easy to stick with the strat PV maintaining itself. It's just hasn't really had that look of getting Ivan Drago'd except for the look at has currently, but it goes right back. It's given me pause for getting excited about a -NAO. However, that look on the long range has me intrigued. Maybe the GOAK trough and any wave breaking from east coast cyclogenesis will combine to fo the trick. I'd like to see how this looks as we get closer. I'm not sold on a -NAO ridge lasting for a long time at the moment , but it's early. It wouldn't shock me if we get that ridge over AK and curving over to nrn Greenland at first.

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Great post HM. Thank you and I definitely have a clearer understanding. I've enjoyed viewing strat height and temp maps this year. Now that you confirmed that they can be used as a tool for gaining more clarity on sensible wx with op and ensemble runs at med-long leads, it will be fun continuing to observe and get better at being an armchair hobbyist

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Andrew at the Weather Centre thinks winter is on its last legs...

http://theweathercentre.blogspot.com/2015/01/january-outlook-thaw-gives-way-to-final.html

He was pretty spot on last winter..

No disrespect to any prognosticators, 5 days ago many were punting the first 15 days of January. Many in this forum will shiver looking at the fresh snow that fell today, pondering the new threats that have popped up in the last few model runs. In this pattern, nothing is set in stone.

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Any new info. on early next week far as ice potential with latest models?

No way to drill down to detail for at least 3-4 more days at the earliest. Depends on how quick things progress. All models point towards a potential precip event in the Mon-thurs timeframe but no clarity as to evolution and thermal profile. From what I see, even if an ice scenario played out, temps won't likely be much below freezing. The typical pretty on the trees and easy on the streets type of deal. Total guess though. Anything is possible.

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