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Winter 2014-2015 Pattern Discussion Thread II


JoshM

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Too bad it's 10+ days away! But, it does have a sleety look to it and we have has a storm show up at around 10 days and actually come to fruition. As has been stated, with a very cold Canada, it's not hard to get some of that to slide down the apps.!

 

The ice/mixed bag has been on the models in this time-frame off and on for a couple days now.  Especially the GFS/Para.  Looking like there may be a strong high, I'd be more worried about getting the system as shown though.  Signal is there.

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It's actually not rare nor unusual whatsoever to have a -AO averaged for all 3 months of meteorological winter (DJF). It has happened 21 times since 1950 (~30-35% of the time or about once every 3 years)... including 1950-51, 1952-53, 1955-56, 1959-60, 1962-63, 1964-65, 1967-68, 1968-69, 1969-70, 1970-71, 1976-77, 1977-78, 1978-79, 1980-81,1985-86, 1993-94, 1997-98, 2000-01, 2005-06, 2009-10, & 2012-13

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/daily_ao_index/monthly.ao.index.b50.current.ascii.table

I should have been more specific. I meant meaningful as in -.75sd or lower each month. It's obviously much easier to go 2 months. Do you think Jan will average negative?

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I think the pattern def favors this. Whether this will be the event that leads to it or something later, the recurrent HP's and cold air supply over southern Canada will eventually time these STJ systems right at some point.

 

Agree.  The wedges are going to end up being stronger/anchored longer with colder air as we get further into Jan also.  I expect by mid month, there are going to be multiple systems to track such as the fantasy ice just shown.  Just too much going on to miss every single one.

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The irony is this will probably happen in some sort of fashion here. It's been almost a decade since we've had a significant ice storm.

This is true on the northside, where the last major ZR was in Dec. of 2005. However, the southside/eastside just had a big ZR 2/12/2014.

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If this is right, it's gonna take some work:

 

attachicon.gifao_sprd2.gif

 

 

Wow, +5, I don't know when the last time I saw a +AO that high in winter.  Just quickly glancing, looks like our fab winters of 89, 90 and 93 had the AO hit +5.

 

I should have been more specific. I meant meaningful as in -.75sd or lower each month. It's obviously much easier to go 2 months. Do you think Jan will average negative?

 

I don't see that happening, not unless the AO falls off a cliff the last 10 days of the month (-3 or lower), which is really hard to imagine when you look at the CPC plot Cold Rain posted.

 

Eventually this bloody ++PDO and SAI crap has to start doing it's magic...eventually...doesn't it...

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I don't see that happening, not unless the AO falls off a cliff the last 10 days of the month (-3 or lower), which is really hard to imagine when you look at the CPC plot Cold Rain posted.

 

Eventually this bloody ++PDO and SAI crap has to start doing it's magic...eventually...doesn't it...

Is there a record for a +AO? I've never seen the projected AO to be that +.

 

 

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/daily_ao_index/ao.shtml

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JUST FWIW RDU is 0.42 sleet, 0.66 ice....ouch

 

Station ID: KRDU Lat:   35.87 Long:   78.78                                                       
GFS Model Run: 12Z 31DEC 2014 Clouds Bases and Tops are now agl
HR Valid     2m Tmp 2m Dpt 10m Dir 10m Spd TPrcp CPrcp 1000-500 500mb 850mb 500mb  MSLP  TCC PRS WX  Low   Middle  High   Max  Min  Sfc
                        Deg F  Deg F   deg      kt    in.   in.     Thk    GPH   Tmp   Tmp    mb    %  TEXT   Clouds Clouds Clouds    Tmp    Tmp  Vis

288 01/12 12Z   27     23      41      13    0.03  0.00    547    576    2.6 -14.7 1037.7  90 -PL   000SCT034 151BKN229 248BKN427   37     27  4.8
300 01/13 00Z   27     24      43      12    0.39  0.00    547    575    1.6 -13.9 1035.5  90 -PL   023SCT093 119BKN226 246BKN429   30     24  2.4
312 01/13 12Z   30     30      17      12    0.66  0.00    551    572    6.2 -13.8 1026.6 100 FZRN  003BKN109 111BKN228 262BKN388   30     26  0.0

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Wow, +5, I don't know when the last time I saw a +AO that high in winter.  Just quickly glancing, looks like our fab winters of 89, 90 and 93 had the AO hit +5.

 

 

I don't see that happening, not unless the AO falls off a cliff the last 10 days of the month (-3 or lower), which is really hard to imagine when you look at the CPC plot Cold Rain posted.

 

Eventually this bloody ++PDO and SAI crap has to start doing it's magic...eventually...doesn't it...

 

No, because of the Anomolous Barents Sea Low.  Totally cancels out ++PDO and SAI.  Ask Cohen, he totally predicted it!!

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No, because of the Anomolous Barents Sea Low.  Totally cancels out ++PDO and SAI.  Ask Cohen, he totally predicted it!!

 

That's interesting for sure.  The GEFS keeps lower heights over the Barent/Kara Seas longer (to day 12) but the GGEM-ENS and Euro-ENS get's rid of it by day 9. 

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I should have been more specific. I meant meaningful as in -.75sd or lower each month. It's obviously much easier to go 2 months. Do you think Jan will average negative?

 

That's more like it, certainly on the rare side of things, we've seen this happen 6 times since 1950, ~10% of the time w/ 1962-63, 1968-69, 1969-70, 1976-77, 1978-79, & 2009-10 able to accomplish this feat. 

Not as certain about that as I was several weeks ago, but I still think we'll squeeze this one out, again I do want to emphasize the Eastern hemisphere MJO pulse we're observing is directly related to the upcoming +AO spike & vis versa w/ yet another push into the Pacific that will reshuffle the Pacific AO pole (lower the heights over the Aleutians) & combined w/ help from the stratosphere, we'll see the AO take a dive later in the month. The twin SST tripoles in the North Atlantic & Pacific will catch up w/ us at some point this winter...

 

OND-Global-SSTs-DJF-AO.gif

Oct-1-Dec-29-2014-Global-SST.gif

No, because of the Anomolous Barents Sea Low.  Totally cancels out ++PDO and SAI.  Ask Cohen, he totally predicted it!!

Lol... no.

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Wow, +5, I don't know when the last time I saw a +AO that high in winter.  Just quickly glancing, looks like our fab winters of 89, 90 and 93 had the AO hit +5.

 

 

I don't see that happening, not unless the AO falls off a cliff the last 10 days of the month (-3 or lower), which is really hard to imagine when you look at the CPC plot Cold Rain posted.

 

Eventually this bloody ++PDO and SAI crap has to start doing it's magic...eventually...doesn't it...

 

I'm actually pulling for a +6 AO.  If we're going to suck, we might as well suck.

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I also think we (entire EC) have been unlucky to hit the worst case setup/scenario for the start of this winter. I am bored to tears, I know I got sucked in listening to JB, won't happen again.

 

Not really, I have seen much worse, the east coast & the southeastern US as expected were relatively cooler than our neighbors out to the north & west...

 

The +PDO, TNA/AMO, & ENSO index are (& will continue) to dampen out the SE US ridge & any warm signal that tries to manifest itself around here. January (as also evidenced by +Neutral & Weak El Nino composites) is when we'll be most vulnerable to influence from the SE ridge), February, not so much... :)

Dec-1-29-2014-US-temps.gif

US-Winter-Monthly-Temps-DJF-El-Nino-Plac

 

The correspondence to cold here in the SE US generally grows stronger throughout the course of the winter under these low frequency indices w/ February by & large possessing the strongest correlations to cold. You can see the PDO & AMO destructively interfere w/ one another, more than likely however, based on the stronger correlation to the PDO, its intensity of late & some help from ENSO, it would likely overwhelm the AMO signal for warmth in January. Like the monthly ENSO composites, these composites below shouldn't be taken literally as a forecast, but merely serve as a good starting point to portend how the large-scale forcing may play out...

AMO-PDO-MEI-US-DJF-Temp-correlation-1024

 

The years w/ this +PDO/AMO/ENSO combo using the 1981-2010 base period appear to be consistent w/ what I've seen play out thus far, and show the temperature distribution & the regions of where the largest deviations from normal are most likely to occur... The general ideas remain relatively the same, a cold November, warmer December, especially towards the north & west, cooler nationwide in January, SE US ridge may be an issue at times in this month (if @ all), then in February the core of the cold shifts southeastward towards the SE US & eastern seaboard. IMO, based on everything I've seen, this is most likely to end up being our biggest month in terms of cold & possibly even wintry wx...

 

PDOENSOAMO-NDJF-US-temps.jpg

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It must be boring if we're talking about a clearly over amped fantasy system dumping ZR on us. That has about a 2% chance of actually verifying. 

 

Definitely.  At least it's something showing up back and forth in some sort around the same time on different runs.  Definitely need something to talk about other than the doom and gloom that's been going on lately.  People are starting to get downright sour with the way things are turning out so far.

 

There does seem to be a nice shot of cold coming soon though.  Hopefully that will help out.

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It must be boring if we're talking about a clearly over amped fantasy system dumping ZR on us. That has about a 2% chance of actually verifying.

Lol this is the first time we've seen over amps fantasy ice that actually amounts to those kind of totals, so you know us weenies will talk about it. It's better than cold suppression or SE ridge/SSWE/MJO etc talk. I want tangible stuff.
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